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Thread: Another Project to Play With Part 2

  1. #1
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Another Project to Play With Part 2

    I have been looking at all the different threads, that I have started and have ongoing... and was thinking of just continuing on with the original build, but with widening the hull, "not yet finished yet" and putting in another power plant, this is I guess a new build going on. o so much fun to be had by all.

    It has been 2 years. since I have done anything with the hull. the last time I was playing with the hull, I ran out of argon, and by the time I got my bottle refilled, winter was on the way, then a year ago I started with the major upgrade with my 084 motor.

    In the meantime, got a total knee replacement, which put a lot of things on hold.. for any physical work, the knee has taken a while to get back into shape, still working on it.
    So here we go again..

    I am getting exited, to pull the string and drop the boat, literally it is as the picture say, upright next to the connex, a good place for storage for the last 2 years...

    as far as the motor goes, there is still some testing that I need to do. to get the EFI dialed in, but I needed the redrive & prop installed so there could be a load on the motor,
    just a lot of loose ends, that are starting to come together, just hope the props I have will good enough to put it through the paces.

    here is a list of the things I have on hand to start out
    one hull 64" wide 10'6" long
    084 motor, with EFI and electronic ignition.
    home built redrive, 1.6 ratio
    2 props 3 blade warp drive 57" dia. & 4 blade ultra prop. 60" dia.
    + a few other things that I have pick up along this journey.

    to get the template to build the motor stand with, I turned out 3 rounds 6" long and threaded both ends, that were bolted to the mounting points, from that I could get the correct measurement. "I hope", now on to getting the stand made,

    from what I have measured, it is looking like the stand height should be 33.5" to the top of the motor mounts, which also will give me 33.5" from the center of the hub to the back of the boat.. this should give me room to expand to a 67" prop down the road...
    the other measurement that I learned, it is wise to have a space of 5 to 6 inches between the prop and the back of the boat...

    one of the options that I am looking at for the stand is to maybe instead of tubing for the runners, use 1" square stock, and with the hull only being 10.5 feet long, the bottom runners I can't see being longer than 6'. another thought about using square tubing, it would add some rigidity and stiffen the hull...

    also in the first pict. is the makings of a fuel tank, I came across an aluminum 50 gallon tank. that was damaged on one end. I will have a nice little 12 gallon tank when done, after reading many of the posts, the 084 motor has an average burning rate of 1 gallon per hour. all I need to to to turn out a threaded bung to fit the in tank fuel pump. and the price was right...

    on another note we have had black bears walking around town already this year, and the snow isn't even out of the park strip...
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  2. #2
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    It has been a good learning curve on putting together the template stand, & getting everything square and plumb. it only took 2 attempts. kind of feeling alot better now. this gaining 5 minutes a day of daylight is starting to get bad, in town there is a quiet time after 10 pm. the neighbors can have a bonfire and music blaring, BUT a little cutting, grinding, and welding action, after 10, and look out...

    But all is fair, I could start making noise at 7 in the morning if I wanted to. but then I would have to deal with the My Better Half... my working area is right out side the bedroom window...but life is good.

    before I made the final tacks on the top of the template, I probably spent a good hour walking around the making sure the 3 points were plumb with the boat.. the first time I put it together, I thought this can't be that hard, and the front mount was just a few degrees off. "that is all I am going to say about that" the other good story, I had 2 plumb bobs I had picked up, that morning, and I am still looking for where I set them down, but a nut on a string works also...

    on the second attempt, I resorted to using a shelf that was handy, where I could line up the joints, using 2 planes. and it really made a difference, in keeping everything at a true 90 degrees.
    with using what I have on hand, I ended up using 1" square tubing for the runners, and 3/4" stainless for the main supports, with 1/2" for some bracing, that should get most of the motor stand done, then will have to change over to 1/2" conduit for the rest of the stand and the cage. thinking of turning out a pancake style of cage, just so I can fiddle around with the motor,....
    on an other note, the 3/4" stainless fits in a 1/2" EMT bender, this is a big plus in making some nice radius bends..

    I had to insert a pict of what my yard looked like a month ago. I can't believe that in another month the summer solstice will be here, where does the time go...
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    put in a couple of hours and have a little more show. that magic hour of 10pm sure does sneak up on a person, now it is coming up on the moment to see how the motor will sit on the stand... with it just tacked, there is a bit of twist and flex. but I figure when I take out the rubber motor mounts and weld up the joints it should stiffen right up. kind of copied the proven design that others have done, then I almost forgot to put a little spacer on the front mount to I could have a little more adjustment in the motor angle. using 309 wire to mig it all together. it is kind of fun to have a little show work come along,
    so I finally put some wheels under the airboat hull, so it would be a lot easier to move around, I can't believe I waited so long to come up with that idea.
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    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    Yeah, that's coming along nicely...It sure is time consuming to get everything where it needs to be..Keep up the good work..

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  5. #5
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Corky View Post
    Yeah, that's coming along nicely...It sure is time consuming to get everything where it needs to be..Keep up the good work..
    you are correct in that, getting the motor lined up is taking some time... even though I thought everything was lined up. when I put the motor on the stand tonight, for what ever reason, the front still came out being a 1/4" off center..

    But now with the stand mostly tacked together, with a couple of nudges, tomorrow night, I am hoping to get it dialed in.

    It still is kind of an awesome feeling to finally see a stand going under this motor, it has only been a little over 3 years to get to this point...
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    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    it was a good day, cut loose the front post legs. and fiddled around, got things lined up and square, tacked it up, then cut loose one of the rear corners. to bring every thing in line, tacked it up. went back to check the center line, and it was off a 1/4 inch again,....
    so I went to option B, reamed out the 2 rear holes in the redrive from 1/2" to 9/16", and elongated the front 1/2" hole on the front bracket. now it lines up on the money,
    welded up all the joints, It is solid, and I am really liking how the 3 point mounting turned out...

    getting excited now. with it finally on its air boat stand, I can start getting the final fit on all the loose ends,
    Last edited by Bart; 05-14-2020 at 03:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    what a difference,,, a welder can make... the last time I mig welded conduit, I didn't have a mig, so I borrowed a freinds. the only adjustable feature on his was a rocker switch for thin or thicker ... it would either burn through or make globs on the conduit due to not having enough heat... it was a good balancing act...

    this little Miller 215 takes all the head ache out of it... set the thickness for 18 gauge, even using .030 wire, no burn through. nice good heat, looking back on what I did 3 years ago and now. I think I have came a long way... later I will have to take a couple pictures of the welds. it is just nice to have the adjustments to have the right wire speed and heat.

    times I wish I had a longer hull. but it is what it is... at least for now....
    I looked at a few of the designs of the different seating arrangements, and the one thing that was consistent was the first level was usually even with the sides of the boat. then a chair platform on that. and on the longer hulls another chair lower in front...
    with a 10.5 foot hull, another chair will be ???

    I kept it simple and bent a 10' stick into a rectangle 24 x 38 , with one seam in the back, and tacked it on. thought about going narrower, but started looking at more trip hazards, with the base being 32 inches wide, so 24 inches it is...

    getting anxious to start the motor, but figure at least I better get a gauge panel built and take time and get it set up so it will work...at the moment when i look at the wiring harness, it needs cleaned up.

    but now the real work begins. just in bringing all the loose ends together... it is going to be a fun one...
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    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    I was getting real tired of working in the shed, just not a lot of room to move around and get a good idea of what needs to happen. today was a good day, thought about a few different methods to move the stand around while I am putting it together, came up with the Idea of using 1" tube and going over the 3/4 tube. welded a 3/8 nut with a bolt to hold it tight to the tube and though-bolted a couple of wheels to it... it works great. I can roll it anywhere I want, except I have been informed that bringing it in the living room is not an option.... it would make a great conversation piece...

    was able to tie up a few loose ends, now.
    the alternator I have the bracket for is a 3 wire one. one wire goes to the battery, and the other one is connected to the on switch in the ignition. if this doesn't work out. I do have a 1 wire alternator as a backup. just need to fab up another mounting bracket..
    finally drilled the holes for the tensioner bracket, it is looking pretty good, just had to trim a little of the back side of the bracket, where one of the motor mount legs was a little to close.

    the biggest thing also got done was finishing fabing up the shroud, just have a few minor details left.
    a. rivet all the joints that have double sided tape on.
    b. put some thicker bracing inside the front corners, so I can screw the front piece to the sides..
    c. pick up some spring clamps to hold the top lid down
    d. install the intake throttle body, and cut out a hole for the air intake.

    then on to finishing up the seating and consul. so the wiring can be trimmed out, I am hoping that I did take good notes on how I left the wiring, haven't touched it for a few months..

    thing of leaving the spark plugs on the outside of the valve covers for the moment, but I would like to move them someplace else to keep things looking clean.

    I did get a good deal on the conduit, from a local electrician, there was some grime on a couple of bundles, so he let me have them for 3 bucks a stick.
    all in all it was hard to put things away at the magic hour. I am just pleased on how the opening for the alternator belt turned out. I had been dreading just thinking about how bad it was going to be.. there will be some air that escapes there, it is hard to close up everything,
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  9. #9
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    Was able to go forward a little more, and have a few more things to think about, put the intake and throttle body on, it is sitting up a little more than I remembered, it kind of bumps up against the lid..
    but the stand is going forward, was actually able to sit on the chair and dream a little bit...
    as for cutting the conduit, I like using the tubing cutter, for me it is quicker than a bandsaw,

    I don't know if I did good in making stand so high, but after dealing with my last stand that was a lot lower. it really made things difficult in trying to place the fuel tank. so until the knee gets better, might just need a step stool, or build some steps....
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  10. #10
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    This last little bit has been busy, but still trying to go forward, the next item that I am needing to address is a consul. after looking at the smaller ones that I had around, they would have been great, with the limited electronics. But with a brain box, & an O2 controller, I was needing more space, I have the regular gauges to install, Tack, 2 ea. head temp sensors, oil pressure, oil temp, O2 gauge. and a few switches, Key, pull tether, bilge pump, lights, deck winch? and a master control switch. & possible a handwarmer switch for the steering. would like to keep the hand warm on the cold days..
    So I built a 32" sheet metal bender, out of some 3" aluminum structural channel, and commercial hinges. That I had waiting for this occasion... it is not the fanciest but, it works and that is all that matters...I used C-clamps to hold things in place and used a 15" crescent wrench for the lever..

    then I started thinking with the Brain box, It could be nice to have an electronic dash also. there are a couple of different routes.
    one of the simplest is using my smart phone or tablet that are somewhat water proof, there is an app called Realdash a free download and the the top of the line for 50 a month. but it connects via wi-fi, blue tooth or usb port.
    the other option is using a LCD screen with a raspberry pi controller. they are not so waterproof, but I can download the Tunerstudio on it. and it also can connect via bluetooth, or a serial port..

    anyway I have just a few things to think about and how I want to put it all together.. but I included a couple of different dash ideas that I may copy a little... and placed a Garmin at the top to get an idea of what it could look like...
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  11. #11
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    It was a good day, the consul is all welded up, even put in an aluminum cup holder...
    kind of leaning towards putting a hinge pin on the front, where I am leaning towards putting a fuse block in the consul also. so it can be opened up.
    thinking of getting some o-rings and putting them behind the gauges and toggle switches, to try to keep most of the water out.
    then I started to go through the wiring harness, now that I finally have this consul built, I will be able to clean it up big time, last summer I had just started to patch the wires together. To get the motor started.
    I am just glad that I took the time to label all the wires, it is going to be fun to see how much extra wiring that I will be able to remove. the last picture of the wires, is what will be cleaned up. which is the ignition plug, a couple of relays, and hot & ground connections.. All the other wires will be sent out to the fuel pump, injectors, O2 sensor, TPS & idle control valve, fresh air temp, and coils.
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  12. #12
    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    I'll be watching to see how all this works Bart. You have way more patience than I.
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  13. #13
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    well I had some fun today, finally got the wiring together enough to hit the start button. and it started right up. and then the fun begins... it was running, not to bad, last night then, it started missing a little. then a back fire and it was dead.. I was looking all over to figure out what went wrong. checked the fuses, wiring, power to the brain box, everything was looking okay, then I looked at the hall sensor & trigger wheel, there was just more than a little gap. the nut holding the pulley, apparently was over looked, thankfully nothing was damaged besides my pride. Installed a new half moon key, put it back together, and it started right up.
    another problem I am trying to solve, is getting the bendix to mesh with the flywheel. it clicks a lot, when the starter motor is not bolted to the motor, the bendix engages and turns great, but when bolted to the motor, the gap is good, but the teeth are not sliding or meshing into the flywheel all the time, I will be putting more shims on it to see if that might help. it is rather annoying, having to rotate / bump the flywheel for it to engage...
    when it is engaged, it turns the motor over great.

    but enough with the few problems. like without having the throttle cable attached to the foot pedal, there is no way to adjust the tension, but it does idle at 700 rpm.
    I have probably 3 to 4 hours of the motor running today, made a couple of videos, trying to document what the temps are doing. so far I am very pleased with what the cooling fan is doing. with out having a prop on yet, but having the motor idle and running the RPM up a few times, for over an hour, the temps are staying very consistent, the spark plug temp sensor on the #3 piston went up as high as 350, but is averaging 300 degrees, for the most part. the thermistor that I installed on the #1 cylinder, in the casting never went past 260 degrees, using an ir temp gun all the head temps on the outer fins, are keeping cool. running between 170 to 200 degrees. the outer temp on the oil pan was 175 degrees,
    as for the oil pressure with the rods notched. at 700 rpms the pressure is around 20 psi, at 1800 rpms it is around 45psi and at 2500 it jumps up to 60 psi.
    granted all of these temps are without a load on the motor, the fan doesn't seem to be over working, and if I didn't have the blue tape on the shroud, it would lift up a couple of inches on the even side, it did not feel like a massive flow of air, but it is consistent, with the rpms. I am thinking of putting together a few more theristors and installing them on the other heads, "the 1/8" tap holes have already been drilled and taped. I am just having fun figuring out how to document what this motor is really doing....
    here is a video of it running, it is not as much fun with the shroud covering up the motor, but it is doing its job. I did try to document a lot of the temps. they are so much better that what I was getting last summer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rJ6gkXoPb4
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  14. #14
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    so a little tid bit on the starter motor...I looked at it and the flywheel from all angles to see why it would push the bendix out. but as soon as it touched the flywheel it would stop. i could have swore that the flywheel had a bevel on the leading edge of the teeth, and then tonight I looked a little closer, and the bevel was on the trailing edge, go figure I would pick up a flywheel that was designed to be turned in the opposite direction.... I couldn't tell you how long this flywheel "at least 4 years" has been a part of this project in one way or another. and I am finally seeing the light, well with a cutting disc on a grinder, now I have an bevel on the leading edge of the teeth. tomorrow we will see if that solves the problem. I really don't want to get a different flywheel, if it can be helped. then it would be back to the drawing board if the diameter is any different,
    I can't believe how fast the time is going, I looked at when I joined this forum, it has been five years, I had picked up the 084 motor from a craigslist add and had no clue about the motor, except I liked how it looked. and now look at it, all the time I spent anodizing the aluminum, now it is all covered up. go figure..
    below are some pictures of how much spacing, and how the teeth on the bendix and the flywheel were lining up. the a picture of the stock flywheel and the bevel that was cut into it.. and finally what I did tonight. I am hoping that this will be the ticket.
    I did break down and pick up a new marine 650 amp battery, so a weak battery is not the issue
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  15. #15
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    at the moment I haven't taken the time to reinstall everything and see if the little notching works, but I have ordered a new starter, after thinking about this for a while there is a better chance of the soleniod being a little too weak to push it through.

    this last week my raspberry pi4 with a screen showed up. & I am finding out, there is a lot more to learn,. watching some utube videos, I was able download tunerstudio onto it. but i was not able open it up after rebooting it. I could not find the command file to open it up. but I visited with a cousin that used to dabble with these units, who is willing to help me out, find the error of my ways..
    once I get it set up. it will open up in the tunerstudio gauge cluster, and in the off season, I can do other things with it.

    one other thing that has been in the back of my mind, I can set the high idle to what I want. so I am thinking of leaving it up to 4000, so I can set the prop pitch to govern it down to 3600...
    the other fun thing about this program, is that I haven't taken time to delve into all the different styles of gauge setups. and different readings that it will give me.
    some things will be doubled up.
    but I will try to start out with Air Fuel ratio, throttle position, pulse with for injector openings, air intake temp. how much fuel is being used per hour, to name a few. there is quite few options that are out there, If I had another O2 controller & sensor, I could monitor both sides
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  16. #16
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    happy day, the new starter showed up. today, I haven't tried one of the old ones, with the ground teeth, but the new starter works like a charm, I am thinking the problem was more of a tired solenoid.
    part of me is wanting to anodize the starter mounting block...we will see what the future brings....

    an other update, I was thinking of making new mounting pads for the rails, but I had the original ones milled out to fit the 1" square tube, leaving just under an 1/8" for a squish.
    now just need to find time and get the rest going.

    I almost have the 7" touch screen ready to go, it has been an learning curve, I have TunerStudio installed, just working on the command lines to have it auto start when I turn it on.
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  17. #17
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    it is simple they said..... finally after 2 weeks of searching and editing, I got the raspberry pi4 to boot up TunerStudio in autostart. or where when I turn it on. it automatically goes to the gauges. there is still a little more to do with it, but the big headache I that I have been dealing with is on the downhill slide...
    so there are at least 4 different methods to configure the raspberry for this. and I have tried all 4 of them and was not having much luck
    then tonight I came across another thread...
    instead of putting the command line on the bottom, It suggested to put it above the bottom line. and instead of clicking control x, try control s ...
    I rebooted it, and HAPPY DAY.......
    now I do not have to take out the laptop every time I start up the motor...
    it can run with out the laptop or the raspberry, but having it connected, I am able to download the tune if need be, and see and adjust different perimeters.... if needed
    thinking of a clear lided pelican case. seen one at the Napa store the other day for 15.00, that should keep it dry...
    still have a ways to go. but this is a big hurdle that I just got over..just a little excited....
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  18. #18
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    it was a good evening, put the motor stand in the boat, to see what things are looking like, other than a matching exhaust........
    some where along the line, I spaced it out that banks were not inline..... I kind of figured that they would not quite be matching, but this is a little overkill. someday I may change it but for the moment I have other things on the burner...
    but the prop is true with the stern. so there is at least one bright spot
    I need to get going on this. it seems like for the last little while I have been putting a lot of time into the electronic part of this. which I have. and the frame has took a hit. or lack of attention...
    maybe now I will get the cage put together and work on the fit and finish. kind of curious to see if anything from the first build will transfer over.
    soon I want to turn the key again just to see how the prop will do. I have 15 degree blocks on it at the moment.
    I am going to start missing these long summer nights real quick I called it a night at 11:30,
    ps. if this digital screen works the way I am thinking, I will be ditching the consul..
    for one with a lot smaller footprint. with a key, and 6 toggles. or rocker arms...
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    Last edited by Bart; 07-29-2020 at 04:15 AM.

  19. #19
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    it has been a busy summer, the fire weed is almost blossoming at the top. here we have a wild flower called fireweed, the blossoms on it start at the base, and when the top finally blossoms, we can start looking for snow... at least in the interior and the mountain ranges...
    I am almost wondering what I have been doing. besides going too many directions.
    but the other day I seen an cage that I like, and thinking of using some of its design...

    so I finally started, many in the past on this forum have made a template on a couple of pieces of plywood, and then bent the hoops to fit, I did that on my first one also. But I got this rolling bender just sitting there, so I did a couple of calculations and figured about 52 inches from the end to start the 90 degree bend. this should give me a good arch, it was not to hard to get the 4 pieces close, it almost took longer to dig it out from the shed, than to make the bends. But I finally was able to use a tool that I built a few years back for the second or third time. Don't think I need to make a stand for it yet...
    I am hoping that this weekend I can get a few things assembled and get a little closer to...
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  20. #20
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another Project to Play With Part 2

    Hey I remember when you made that bender... I forgot you had that...That sure will make the process much easier... I'm sure you'll have a nice cage when you're done..

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