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Thread: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

  1. #1
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    with fall/winter soon showing up. getting the motor on the boat looks like next spring. But I have been looking at a few different things, to help cool the heads on the 084 motor. I don't know how well it will work, but we will see how it goes.
    so last summer when tuning the motor, I had the stock fan mounted and pushing the air towards the motor, but with out the shrouds, it was kind of hit and miss...
    and the head temps were getting up there...
    I had an old 2A042 genset, and up to now I had nothing to compare the 084 head temps against... so I got it going, and with no load, but at 3600 rpms. & all the shrouding. the head temps are around 280 degrees. but as soon as I would remove the top cover. they would shoot up to around 400 in less than a minute. put the shroud back on and they would go down.
    then a few weeks ago I came across an video of Les Smoot's air plane, where he discussed a few things, he mentioned that with his arrow prop. at 3200 rpms. his head temps would stay around 400 to 420, but if the rpms went higher. so would his head temps.
    one really cannot compare the air flow on the motor when the air plane is using a puller prop. and the airboat is using a pusher prop.
    but it is food for thought...
    so in the quest of improving some small things, I am fabbing up a 15" fan onto the rope pulley..
    One thing to be thinking about down the road, is how I will be incorporating and belt driven alternator.
    also I am thinking it may not be enough just to have air flowing horizontal past the cylinders.. on these gensets, the air is exiting by the base head.
    and to do that I will need to add some shrouds, maybe..
    Anyway, it is nice to have a lathe to turn some of these things out. Just to see if they will work, a 3D printer would be fun also..
    the biggest thing is to keep everything concentric to the rope pulley. I am still thinking about how to install the fan shroud so it will keep things clear..
    but I have a few ideas..
    but at the moment with what I have done, it is looking like the leading edge of the shroud will only be 2.5 inches in front of the pulley. and that is better than I thought. with the parts I have. I really cant see getting it any closer..
    I did come across a link with pictures of how one built shrouds for his 084 motor that he has on his plane. It is just fun to start finding more threads on what others have done..
    if this works great, if not, at least it was attempted..
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  2. #2
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    now comes the fun, needing to fab up a shroud, to direct the air.
    I am sure that it will take more than a couple trials and error to fab this up, I did acquire a 24" scroll saw last summer, and I think that it will come in very handy to cut out the pieces.
    I have been looking at what the gentleman did with his airplane, where he used some fabric to help with the corners, I am almost thinking of doing that for the top cover. to keep it lower. and run it under the intake tubes. it would save a big headache in the cutting and fitting dept.
    as it was, I was able to cut out one side. that scroll saw is nice, it doesn't leave a sharp edge. the fit was not bad for the first attempt. I have learned a few things, and who knows how it will end up.
    but at least I should be able to test the motor and run it through the paces with out it getting over heated. That is the plan anyway.
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    You might want to investigate how much RPM that plastic fan blade can handle.

    Roger

  4. #4
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by GTS225 View Post
    You might want to investigate how much RPM that plastic fan blade can handle.

    Roger
    thanks, there is always something, that I forget to do. I looked all over the web, and any info on the blades rated rpm is very vague, so I sent a email to SPAL tech dept. this morning, to see what they have to say. and if this fan blade is not rated for 3600 rpm. If they would suggest a suitable blade.
    well they are quick to respond. this is what I got

    The max blade RPM when driven by our motors is ~3,000 RPM.
    We do not recommend using the blade as you have shown.

    Kind Regards,
    Brent Chuck
    Application Engineer
    SPAL USA 1731 S.E. Oralabor Road Ankeny, IA 50021-9412
    Tel: (515) 289-7042 | Fax: (515) 289-7069


    I did start the motor up last night, didn't have the computer hooked up to it. so I don't know how high I the rpms went, but I didn't notice any flexing of the blades.. but having it come apart, is the last thing I would want to happen.
    I guess another option is to start looking at used cars fan blades that were mounted on a water pump pulley.

    I can see where the engineer would not recommend, or give his stamp of approval for liability reasons.

    I will keep on building the shroud for the motor, and could use the stock fan on the flywheel for the moment, and will keep looking, for a blade that is rated for 3600 rpm. this blade was close at 3000.
    For the time being, if I keep the rpms under 3000. I should be able to at least see how much air flow I will be getting with a set up like this.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    My thoughts are the same as yours...The fan should be good enough to see if you're heading in the right direction...It'll be interesting just how much each shroud will take the CHT down..

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  6. #6
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    So, I when I pulled out the props. for my redrive, I noticed that as per the fan blade profile. My cooling fan would be running backwards. So the air flow would be not so great. back to the drawing board.
    I was able to salvage the face of the pulley hub adapter. but needed to make a couple other plates, to mate it to the shroud.
    As it sits now, it will stand 3 inches proud from the rope pulley.
    now I just hope it warms up sometime soon, so it will be a little more comfortable to go out and finish this up...
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  7. #7
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    slowly I am getting at a few final things. I have the sides done, and have been thinking of what I need to do to connect the pieces together and still make it look good. been going through some boxes, just looking at how I want things to fit. but I am getting a better idea, of what I want, before I start cutting metal...
    for fun I cut up a old fire blanket, just to see what it would look like routed under the intake. it is always fun, just to look at it from an different view...but I am still leaning to keeping it simple and making a new metal cover that is 19 in. long. with a cut out for the starter motor, oil tube, and the intake tube. still need to come up with what I want for an air cleaner....I also removed the alternator for the moment, figure to cut out a slot for it later,..
    dang looking at the pictures below, the stock intake really does clean up the look, when comparing the pictures..
    I did notice on the air ducting on many of the plane motors, they had incorporated a material that looked similar to the fire blanket, to hug uneven edges and seal between some of the joints of the shrouding.
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  8. #8
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    Well Happy Day,
    A top cover piece showed up today, and with the preliminary cuts, I can start to see what I need to do to make everything fit around it. I was thinking that I would need to cut out for the starter, but it is looking like just one notch for the prop shaft bolt & nut, will lower it enough to go under the starter motor
    all that is left to do is cut the front part next to the fan to fit. I wish I had the knowledge about tin knocking that some of my friends have, and the tooling to make it look nice..

    still need to figure out how I want to route the air intake, and what type of air filter to use....

    it is looking like once I get the front cut and trimmed, it really will not take up or block air getting to the prop... at least the look is growing on me..
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  9. #9
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    Wow, that's a nice looking cover...The shields are really starting to take shape...

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  10. #10
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    thanks Corky,
    I wish I had the tools here at the house to make the rest of this look as good, it was hard to cut into it, but it needed to happen. instead of waiting for my friend to help me out. I could have split the 042 cover and added a 10in. splice.
    but either way it is going forward,
    I got the back 2 corners finished. used double sided tape to attach them to the sides.
    I decided to put a jog on the right back corner, so I would not need to make a cut out for the oil lines.
    once everything is fitted up. they will get rivets.
    started on fitting up the front of the shroud, rounding out the top, and reducing the bottom corners for better air flow.

    the only drawback I am seeing at the moment is to remove the top cover, the way it is... I will need to remove the starter motor. so it might have to go back to the drawing board. or at least put in a trap door I can make any adjustment to the throttle body.
    but then again, once everything is dialed in, I shouldn't need to take the cover off to often. may I just over think things,
    like how often do I need to mess with my car, but it is nice to open the hood once in a while..
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  11. #11
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Installing a Fan on the Rope Pulley

    It has been a good day, wheeled the motor out side to work on it, it is starting to get crowded in the shed... on these nice spring days..
    it took a couple of different approaches, but finally came up with how I wanted to finish the shroud. if I would have had enough material. I would have just made one solid piece for both sides, but I cut a 1.5" backing plate, used double sided tape and joined the front part to it. I will be riveting all the joints that have tape. with 1/8" rivets..
    It made it look nicer than trying to over lap the joints.

    I also cut out for the alternator and it turned out better than I would have thought. it looks like I will turn out 2 ea. 1/2" spacers and put them on the 2 bottom bolts on the fan shroud. to hold the back part from bumping into the alternator belt.
    then put a backing plate on the front corners. so I can bolt the front to the sides, looking at some sort of spring clamps to secure the top..

    sorry for the delay, all of this has been waiting for the stand, so I would know exactly how to fit all the pieces together.
    now I can almost check this off the list. just need to do a few more things before starting it up. like get the consul made up and cleanup the wiring...
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