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Thread: Efi retrofit for the 084 motor

  1. #21
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    You also talk about what injector to use. It's like there saying one fits all which is not the case. If it were they would only make one injector. They told us at class never substitute one model car injector for another unless they were exact same spec. I under stand that you control the on and off time of the injector but that large of injector seems hard to control at idle. When they talk about using the same injector in aircraft engines as a lawn mower engine something is wrong with their thinking. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

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  2. #22
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Efi retrofit for the 084 motor

    [QUOTE=bgmcl60;36799]That would confuse anyone. Following what a photo described that was backward for the engine your working on. I didn't notice that until you sait something. Glad you got over that hurdle. What about the advance of 28? Where does that come in?


    the spark advance is covered on an separate page. in the configuration index.. and on that page it needs 4 inputs
    1. spark output mode.
    Spark Output mode - Determines how the ignition pulses will be outputted and is very specific to your ignition wiring. Note that no matter which option is selected here, ignition signals ALWAYS fire in numerical order (ie 1->2->3->4) up to the maximum number of outputs. The firing order of the engine is accounted for in the wiring order

    2 cranking advance angle. (28 degrees for the 084 motor)

    • Cranking advance - The number of absolute degrees (BTDC) that the timing will be set to when cranking. This overrides all other timing advance modifiers during cranking.


    3. spark outputs triggers. (reading which side of the tooth. the leading edge or the trailing edge)

    • Spark output triggers - THIS IS A CRITICAL SETTING!. Selecting the incorrect option here can cause damage to your igniters or coils. Specifies whether the coil will fire when the ignition output from Speeduino goes HIGH or goes LOW. The VAST majority of ignition setups will require this to be set GOING LOW (ie the coil charges/dwells when the signal is high and will fire when that signal goes low). Whilst GOING LOW is required for most ignition setups, there are some configurations that perform the dwell timing on the ignition module and fire the coil only when they receive a HIGH signal from the ECU.

    4. fixed angle (still trying to figure out if this should still be 28 degrees.)

    • Fixed Angle - This is used to lock the ignition timing to a specific angle for testing. Setting this to any value other than 0 will result in that exact angle being used (ie overriding any other settings) at all RPMs/load points, except during cranking (Cranking always uses the above Cranking Advance setting). This setting should be set to 0 for normal operation.




    if you pull up the link below. it guides you through what perimeters are needed to be entered in. still trying to determine what i need to enter in for the Fixed Angle.
    https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php...guration_Index
    https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Spark_Settings
    Last edited by Bart; 01-13-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Efi retrofit for the 084 motor

    [QUOTE=bgmcl60;36800]You also talk about what injector to use. It's like there saying one fits all which is not the case. If it were they would only make one injector. They told us at class never substitute one model car injector for another unless they were exact same spec. I under stand that you control the on and off time of the injector but that large of injector seems hard to control at idle. When they talk about using the same injector in aircraft engines as a lawn mower engine something is wrong with their thinking. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

    I understand, and appreciate your thoughts and concerns... that is the last thing most of us want to see is someone fail miserably.

    last summer i had looked at so many web pages, and injector formulas. that it was more confusing, everywhere I looked. somethings the different formulas would back each other up. and then I would look at the size of injectors that manufactures were using in similar CC motors. I forget the location of the web page that I found. but an individual had almost every CC motor with the injector that the manufacturer had recommended. so trying to figure out what to use. for what knowledge that I have & had, would be like trying to find a needle in an haystack.

    the only other option that I knew of was to ask sdsefi.com they had helped Les Smoot with his EFI build 10-15 years ago. and were in the process of helping another person install their system on an 084 motor last summer.
    so i emailed and asked, if they would be willing to let me know what size of injector and model number. that they are recommending, to be used with the 084 motor.
    Ross Farnham did reply. and let me know the size and model that they would use.

    so it is from this information that I choose the injector. first he had just given me the CC size. boy it seemed like you could pull up a couple of hundred different ones. So I asked him, if he would be willing to help me out with a model number..
    if he hadn't have took the time to help me out. I really don't think I would have the confidence to even attempt to choose an injector...
    he also let me know this important information.
    "We could supply a base map which should be close though if we know injector flow rate"

    trust me, at times I feel that I am just digging a great big hole, to fall into. but it seems like every time I come up against an other hurdle /wall. After researching and trying to find the answers, I have been able to find somebody out there, that is willing to help me get answers. ( i just hope that they are the correct ones.)


    and if my memory serves me correctly. If I purchased the SDS product, they could supply an base injector map. but where the 084 motor is not an "high demand" installation, i would be on my own for the most part to figure the mapping out. using the O2 sensor. But that is what most of the aftermarket EFI companies are doing.. "the end user needs to verify and adjust the settings per what the conditions are reading the motor is giving."
    even with the tunerstudio auto tune, there are many that say, it will get you close, but you may want to fine tune it.
    I just remember back in the 90's, when EFI came out big on the snowmachines, they would always run about 10 percent rich...
    and right before I purchased a new one in 09, there was a big problem of them running lean, and burning down. if you ran them to long at the mid throttle range.

    there is a lot for me to learn still, at times I feel, that I still don't even know enough to get into trouble.... and I know there still are some big challenges up ahead on this adventure...

  4. #24
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Efi retrofit for the 084 motor

    Quote Originally Posted by bgmcl60 View Post
    You also talk about what injector to use. It's like there saying one fits all which is not the case. If it were they would only make one injector. They told us at class never substitute one model car injector for another unless they were exact same spec. I under stand that you control the on and off time of the injector but that large of injector seems hard to control at idle. When they talk about using the same injector in aircraft engines as a lawn mower engine something is wrong with their thinking. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

    Sent from my SM-G935VC using Tapatalk
    I have had to change out a few injectors over the years, and I follow what you are saying about how can the same electronic injector be used for different applications... with the manufactures ECU boxes, the parameters are non adjustable,

    years ago I was learning about diesel injectors, and rebuilt just a few of them.... the old style would pop off, when they reached a certain pressure, and depending on the application. a person can change the spring, needle and nozzle of any injector to reach your desired goal..

    last night I came across a video, that touches on how these after market kits, are allowing the end user to change out the parameters on electronic fuel injectors, it has answered a few questions that have been in the back of my mind.
    at times I wish that I had more knowledge on this subject. it is a big learning curve for me. and i suspect that I will be ending up with a box or two of things that I really didn't need to get.
    it was a little enlightening to see how you could change the data, to change the injectors from a smaller CC to a 440 CC. to run on the same motor.
    I haven't got to this part yet, to enter in the motor & injector data into the firmware. to see were and if they will work like they should..

    https://youtu.be/bze35R4elqE


    hope that this can answer some questions, and create a few more...

  5. #25
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    Re: Efi retrofit for the 084 motor

    bart i see your doing your home work on this project and all i can say is more power to you. you have gone out of your way to answer a lot of my dumb questions. thanks for all of that. i had no idea the speeduino ecu could do all it can like the injector flow and the adaptive memory. when you are an old school mechanic you think you can only do so much but with these units you can do that and much more. again thanks for explaining this. before it seemed impossible to get where you wanted to go but now it is not only possible but very possible.
    4a084
    Arrow belt drive
    marty bray 116 mini pro
    solex 32/36
    weber 32/36
    solex 34 pict 3
    weber 34 ich
    Razor x 3 blade

  6. #26
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Efi retrofit for the 084 motor

    Bobby, none of the questions that you have asked are anything but "dumb"...
    most of the mechanics that i ever done was on a i was on an old 55 chevy truck, and a couple years at a vo-tech school studding diesel mech. back in the early 80's
    i loved the old school hot rods...
    and up until now have been somewhat intimidated by what we have now.. rebuilding a motor, no problem. but when you start looking at the electrical side.... that is my weakness..

    the gentle man in the video. has a couple more out. and it really brings it down to earth. yea. there is a lot of homework needed, to learn and try to grasp some of these concepts and how to make this work..
    but with you asking the questions. it really helps me dig in deeper and do a little more homework.
    it is just like the improvements that you have been working on. going in directions that not many others have not thought of...and always trying to improve this motor.
    so by all means keep asking away.
    thanks again for all your input..

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