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Thread: bgmcl60 Build

  1. #21
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    have you figured out the jetting for the 32/36 carb? last winter when i was looking at this, i was getting a lot of information from some suzuki samurai builds where people have been installing these carbs. where these motors are just a little smaller than the 084 motor, but can run the rpms up just a little higher. i just wish that i would have had one of these manifolds to try, instead of building the one. there was a reason that they scared me off from a larger intake body, was from reading over so many of the carb intake mods that have built on this forum, and the one biggest complaint was when the manifold box behind the carb was to large and gas would end up falling out of the air mixture. so i was thinking to neck it down to keep the air flow from spreading out. the only thing i dont like about it, is that it sits up just a little more than i am wanting it to. i was wanting to weld the adapter to the 084 intake and skip the transition plate, but didn't know if the cast aluminum weber adapter would be comparable with the cast 084 mainifold.
    i was also wanting to incorporate the tab on the front of the manifold that bolts to the case. the 32/36 is just a little heavier, and was concerned about keeping it steady.
    but i am excited to see how this works, i will have to dig up the paper work that i had, on the jetting that i thought might work, and see how it compares to what you are coming up with.
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    Last edited by Bart; 08-08-2017 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    i have no idea of what jet size to use. after overhauling hundred of the holley type carburetor similar to this i never gave it a second thought but these were built for a specific engine size and all i ever did was soak carburetor and replace gaskets and needle and seats. dirt was the only problem they had. i will run this webber and see how it runs and go from there. on the solex i had to replace the high speed jet to 150 to stop the hesitation the new solex was like a different carburetor and idled better and had no hesitation out of the box. unless they screwed up and put the wrong jet in at factory i can't explain why two carburetors ran so different being the same style carburetor.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    Amazing...It sure is a nice, clean install and you've even got the vent tube orifice for the engine breather..I'm really hoping this works out for you it sure would be nice to have another alternative for an induction system ...If it turns out the intake plenum might be too big{you'll notice it at the lower RPM range} you can always build up that center divider a little bit to take up some of the volume...But that's down the road after all tuning is exhausted...
    Last edited by Corky; 08-08-2017 at 10:28 PM.

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  4. #24
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    the reason i was asking about the jetting, is these carbs have been installed on the engines from the 1.3 liter, to the 4.2 liter size.
    and after looking at the difference that just the stock carb between the 042 motor to the 084,
    the carb that i picked up had been jetted for the a jeep, so i pulled up jetting information that went with the 1.3 suzuki samurai motor.
    just to get me in the ball park.
    haven't had time to do much more than that. keep telling myself when i get 2 free evenings. i will get it done, and summer is almost over with.
    below is a picture of some of the carb setting I pulled off the web. and if memory serves me right i think the jetting sizes in red, is what I have set for the starting base on the carb that i picked up.
    i may have to open it up again, just to remember exactly what I had installed.
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    Last edited by Bart; 08-09-2017 at 08:42 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    thanks bart. when i get the carb this will help a lot to start. i plan on opening up the carb to see what it comes with. ups has delayed shipment for some reason and will reschedule. hope to get it this week.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    I was reading a little more about these carbs..I had seen where you stated about the rebuild of holley carbs I didn't realize some were a partnership/license built by either holley or weber...Interesting..Holley's version, the 5200 series spanned a broad range of engines as Bart has mentioned..

    Here's a cut from a discussion...I'd be interested in trying this smaller holley carb for our purposes...:Most models primary venturi diameter is 26mm and the secondary is 27mm. Throttle bore diameters are 32mm and 36mm with a 43mm center spacing on a metric flange. The stud spacing measures 47mm x 93mm.

    When introduced, this carburetor only came in one size, 270CFM at three inches of mercury. In 1978, a 235CFM model was introduced on Ford and Mercury 4-cyl. engine with a 23mm primary venturi and 27mm secondary. Since 1979, Chevettes have been equipped with a 245CFM model with primary and secondary venturis of 23mm and 29mm. Venturi size refers to the narrowest channel in the carburetor throat. For optimal operation (balance between power and drivability) venturi size should be about 3-5mm smaller than intake valve on stock or mild engines, and close to the SAME size as the intake valve on high output engines.{Anyone know what the size of the intake valve is on the 084?}

    I'm assuming it would be one like this....http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-1979-Ford-Mustang-Capri-2-3L-140-CID-2-BBL-Holley-Carburetor-NOS-9809-/152658259113?epid=192425533&hash=item238b242ca9:g: 3iAAAOSw3utY68Xf&vxp=mtr




    Last edited by Corky; 08-11-2017 at 10:43 PM.

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
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  7. #27
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    i was looking at the Holley carbs also. i went and purchased a "CHRYSLER DODGE OMNI HORIZON HOLLEY 6520 CARBURETOR 1.7 L ENGINE" and when i got it. even though it was for an 80's model, it had a electronic fuel metering device that needed to be hooked up to the car's computer, "live and learn" so read up on things, or you might get a bunch of boat anchors. like i have.
    i had back in the day dealt with the Rochester & Carter 4 barrel carbs. so after the first attempt, I read up on the weber 32/36 for a while. and found more information on tuning these carbs, that dealt with the smaller CID motors. the only drawback that i see, is like on my 084, i dont have a redrive. so my rpm is limited to the prop speed. where with a redrive you can run the 084 up to the 3600 rpm range, and that is where the horse power is. i dont know if i have ever seen a chart that compared the horse power curve to the torque curve on this motor. someday when i get this running. i would love to put this motor on a dyno and just see what the power curve is. had a chance to purchase one a few years ago. i passed because i didn't see using it that much. but maybe someday, if i come across the right deal. one would be fun to have. but the closest i can get at the moment is with an O2 sensor. at least then i could get the fuel mixture correct. i think once things slow down this winter. i am going to have some fun with this motor and finish up the few projects that i have been sitting on.

  8. #28
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    i got my weber in today and first i started taking it apart (just like any mechanic would do) and supprised me how close the jets were for the 1.3. the primary jet was 140 primary idle jet was 60 the primary air correction jet was 170 the secondary jet was also 140 both emulsifier tubes were F50 the secondary jet was 150 it was the only thing that puzzeled me why so small. the secondary air correction jet i thought should have been at least as large as the primary.any how i put it all back together and found no base gasket in box so i made one it seems to run fine. the intake is a little wobbly from soft tubes to engine. they make a stiffer tube and may switch to that or maybe a brace like the solex had. i was afraid to open the throttle up because it was under the tarp and afraid of blowing it apart. got my air fuel gauge and plan on hooking it up tomorrow and see what the weber is really doing. if it wasn't of needing to hook up my throttle cable i would be out tonight testing it. this is the only way the carb would fit . turn it around and the starter was in the way. here's a short video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLym7N42TP4
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    Last edited by bgmcl60; 08-12-2017 at 07:42 PM.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    you are having to much fun.

  10. #30
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    the valve on top of your carburetor is an enrichment valve. does the same thing as the power valve on the weber. i used to cut the wires to the valve to eleminating it from causing some engines to run lean. if the car had a flat spot and couldn't fix it i cut the wires to the valve and it ran perfect. maybe a mile per gallon less but i never had any complaints. these valves were controlled by the computer and some computers were lazy and cause a lot of proplems. the newer ones have adaptive memory and can recover by itself if something goes wrong.

  11. #31
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    i guess now i have another back up carb, i just didn't know where to look, and who to ask about that carb. just figured it was made for a 1.7 liter motor, and with a little adjusting, i would be able to make it work for a 084. And with shipping it was only around 50.00, not much to loose, if it didn't work out.
    Didn't know that i didn't need to worry about the metering valve. there is a difference when you just dabble in an area, or when your lively hood depends on it..
    it was after i started looking at the 32/36 weber carbs, i was amazed on how much information there is about tuning them. so my first purchase is sitting in a box in the corner, almost forgotten about.

  12. #32
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    Wow that engines sounds promising !!! And it looks good on there too.. Some of those fernco couplers have an outer metal shell that adds some structure to the joint instead of just the rubber Here's the link to what I'm refering to...It might be an easier way out instead of making up a rigid bracket....https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shie...flex-couplings

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  13. #33
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    corky i looked at those in home depot but was afraid they wouldn't seal good since the intake port diameter is larger than the 084 and i picked up some new ones today they are not as heavy made but the inside diameter is smaller than the black ones and shorter. it made a big difference. i noticed agfab17's photo showed an extra clamp on each connector maybe for more support. i'm going to add a clamp in the middle and see if it helps. its ok like it is now except when i open the carb wide open you can see it move slightly.

  14. #34
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    i finally got to check this setup out again. it runs rich as expected but not fouling plugs yet. it runs at least as good as the solex conversion. it has the same max rpm 3800 and no hesitation. on the wide band gauge it idles best at 11 to 1 and any leaner it starts to run rough. plenty more adjustments to be made and tuning to do. all in all i would consider it a good replacement for the factory carburetor. no aluminum welding to do and the intake was low in price. i paid 40 dollars for it and am very happy with it. i need to align the intake to the tubes. i know that alone must create some resistance. picture below.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjXNS6-uDpQ
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    Last edited by bgmcl60; 08-23-2017 at 06:17 PM.

  15. #35
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    Sounds great
    At what rpm does the secondary start to open?
    I am hoping to find time to see what my set up, will do. In the near future
    Where you have ran with both, direct drive, and now the redrive,
    Until I get a redrivei don't know if it will even use the secondary throttle,
    So the question is, what would the target rpm that I should be looking for,
    At the moment I have 2 left handed props to play with, a 3 bladed 60"warp drive, and a 4 bladed 60" ultra prop

  16. #36
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    its turning right at 3000 before secondarys start to open. not much gained on direct drive. it seamed 3100 was my best running on ultra prop. 8 or 10 degree pitch block worked best. the warp drive will probably have more push and no pitch blocks to deal with.
    Last edited by bgmcl60; 08-23-2017 at 08:22 PM.

  17. #37
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    Looking at the fit up, I can see what you mean with the angle of the#3 intake, it looks like you may have to notch the leading corner off, to get a direct path for the air flow, what is the OD of the intake, it would be nice if there was a reducer made to go from 1-3/8" up to the size of the after market intake, that is just a little bit of rubber to compress, and not have any air leaks.
    I think I will be looking at a redrive before to long, just need to find or turn out a 8" 16 groove micro v-belt pulley, and a Harley ring gear, and I will have everything to make my own setup.

    It is good to see this working for you

  18. #38
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    The progressive carb, might work where you have yours governed at 3800 rpm, I will have to adjust my pitch, so I don't go over 2800/3000 rpms, but without that extra 800 rpms it leaves a lot of horse power on the table.
    I will have to see how this fall treats me, I still have to build a hull for this motor, but you got my mind going anyway

  19. #39
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    the manifold is about .025 larger inside and outside is like .075 larger. im going to set the intake in place and as you said i'm going to notch the tube. the other side is the same. i'm going to mill down the intake outside port to a smaller size and maybe i can use the old connectors from 084. they are stiff. this intake is made heavy duty and thick. i'm going to polish the inside expecially the runners. they have sort of a lip that protrudes toward the inside. not finished off at all. the aluminum feels and looks rough too.
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    Last edited by bgmcl60; 08-23-2017 at 09:28 PM.

  20. #40
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: bgmcl60 Build

    I wonder if it wouldn't be better to offset grind those outside ports on the manifold to help aim them a little and give the 084 connectors a better chance at sealing ?? I was watching the A/F gauge through your run it appears to get leaner as the RPMs go up...Not bad for just bolting it on there...

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



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