bgmcl60 Build

[Bart]

that is a lot of frogs, it looks like you were having some fun for a while.

have you had time to test the O2 sensor, to see if the sensor was putting out any ohms when heated?

looking at them plugs, i am thinking of some of the things that i will be going through, it has me almost thinking of picking up a USB inspection camera w/light that plugs into a phone. just for a piece of mind, so i could look inside the combustion chamber.
last winter when i was taking apart a cylinder on the 084 motor, i couldn't get the head would not separate from the cylinder, ended up taking taking the jug and head off as one piece. i would tap it with a rubber mallet, and still a no go. ended up heating it up with an electric heat gun. and the head dropped right off the cylinder when it got to about 400 degrees. just a little more work than what i was expecting.
on a side note i could see where the fins had been bent. So the some where in its past someone had tried to remove the head and bent the fins trying to pry it off.
attached is a picture of where the fins were already bent by from the previous owner tying to remove the head. at least that is the only way i can see them fins getting bent like that.
that is just one of the little problems that i have had to deal with.
just hope you have some good luck with your findings,
Bart
the cylinders were a tight fit into the motor case, it took about 20 minutes tapping it from side to side, to get the cylinder separated from the motor casing, then it was very simple the rest of the way. just had to pick up a different style of ring compressor. when i put the cylinder back on.

[bgmcl60]

no i didn't check the o2 sensor because it would read propane with a lighter when calibrated it. as soon as i would crank engine it would read 888 and nothing else. the plugs were the cause of a 115 main primary jet being too small. the 125 works much better but i wanted to see just how lean i could go. without the wide band gauge telling me it was running lean except for a slight stumble it ran fine even wide open throttle.

[bgmcl60]

well i got a lot done today. change the plug wire that wasn't long enough with the new mag. they sent me 2 no 1 plug wires and to fit it on no 2 was just too tight. i had to stretch it to make it fit. i got this bright idea i could put a pcv valve to the port on front of manifold and connect to the heated air affair that wraps around the exhaust pipe and suck heated air to manifold to stop the sweating.the 4 cylinder pcv valve pulled to much vacuum and made the engine idle high and rock and skip. i new this wouldn't work so i blocked off the pcv valve and drilled a small hole in the block off plate after a couple of tries i got it to run good with pcv valve hooked up. my wide band showed a lean condition of 10 before i changed the idle air valve back to 60 from 45. and after adjusting the mixture got it ba ck to 11. it ran smooth an ran the same readings as before around 2000 rpm and no change in performance. outside temp was 79 and intake never got below 73 degrees and maxed out at 83 after running 30 min. before the intake would be in the 40 degree range after 30 min running. the pipe from the crankcase breather just wasn't doing much good except relieve crankcase pressure and a water trap in the clear hose. you could see water in the hose at all times. the intake stayed dry enough not to drip condensation like it did before. all this mean nothing if your in a warm climate but might help someone in a colder climate.

[Bart]

sounds like you are rocking and rolling with ideas. I never would have thought to try a pcv valve, just cant quiet picture it in my mind, how you plumbed this all together. if you haven't patented the idea, a picture could help, understanding how you incorporated the the small hole in the back off plate with the pcv valve.

you noted a couple of things that i hadn't seen any comment about before.

1. the temp differential between the ambient air, & the air flow in the intake. A 40 degree drop, that is huge. No wonder there have been many comments about the fuel dropping out of the air flow. This could have been a major reason why so many different carb mods in the past have failed.
if i understand it correctly, adding some warm air drawn off a tube rapped around the exhaust pipe.& enriching the carb to compensate for the lean condition.
who would have thought.
but to have the intake air temp. staying warmer, should keep the fuel from dropping out.

2. when i was looking at your motor set up i just assumed that the tube was just cloudy, didn't realize that it was condensate. i always thought from what i had read that there was enough air, being sucked into the carb. that this wouldn't be an issue.

i am still working on some of my ideas. and with a week off coming up. we will see if i can add anything to your findings. maybe i will be in a position to finally start up my motor. I'm getting excited. the hard part is getting freight here, it is usually a week out for anything. big or small.

[bgmcl60]

i'll take a picture tomorrow of the setup before i remove it. why well every things works great but just can't smooth out the slight shake at 1100 rpm after it has idled maybe 15 to 20 seconds. move acc pedal sowly not enough to activate the acc pump and hold it between 1100 and 1200 rpm and it will shake almost like a miss but the wide band gauge starts to spike from11 to 15 when it starts to shake. i'm as rich as i want to go with the 125 primary main jet and did change the air jet back to 60 and didn't have any effect.except making my readings from wide band go richer at idle. don't get this the wrong way. there's not many that would notice this because moving the accelerator pedal normally it's not there. but when i'm frogging most of the time i'm idleing and moving at a snails pace and i notice every time i try to move slowly ahead. i've done all i can do to improve on the weber carburetor so it's back to the solex or something else i like but for now it will be the solex. the last time it was about as good as you could get for idle quality and performance. the weber seemed to give the 084 a little more torque but the max rpms were the same. just a little longer for the solex to get there. and 40 degrees is a lot when the outside temp is 79. thats where all the condensation was coming from. i bought a lazer temp gauge to verify head temperature and the intake temp. i think the larger thicker weber intake gets a lot colder then the original intake with the mod does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqHeul7ldG4 a little of what i spend my time doing.

[bgmcl60]

here is a picture of the pcv valve mounted on exhaust and one of the hole i drilled in the block off plate i glued to the end of pcv valve because of too much vacuum leak. the hole looks big but is less than 1/8 in

[Bart]

that answers a few questions.
but now i have a few more, all my life i have heard about PCV valves. and have changed out a few. back in the day. but it is something that i have overlooked untill now. and have spent a little time today reading up on them.
where you have been turning wrenches, i am thinking, you have forgotten more than i will ever learn.
So these motors were first designed before the pcv valves, really came out. but they incorporated a vent tube before the carb.
would there be anything wrong with installing a pcv valve on the vent tube and plumbing it to the intake manifold?
i see you had plumbed yours to draw heat off the exhaust pipe. and it seemed to work. except for that missing at 1100 rpm.
that would really get annoying when you are just idling around.
so i guess what i am trying to ask, will you keep with the plumbing that you have and run warm air into the intake with the solex carb?
what are your thoughts about keeping the intake warmer?
thanks again for sharing this information. with these longer winter nights coming. I hope I can figure out this dead spot that the weber carb.
i know i wouldn't like it either, when idling around and have to deal with that

i watched your video a few times, and for the life of me, how do you see where the frogs are, do you see the reflection of their eyes?
anyway it does look like something fun to do.

[bgmcl60]

just look for an outline of a frog or most often see the yellowish belly shining. no i won't be using the heated air with the solex except the crankcase vent which does a good job alone. since i have my wide band gauge working i found out these 2 carburetors are nothing alike with running. the weber tend to run rich and had to go smaller on jet sizes. the solex is comletely different and runs extremely lean. like 18 at times at 2000 rpm before the high speed jet takes over. it had a 127 main jet and i went to a 130 because of a slight bog. that brought the lean condition down to 14 or so and no stumble or shake no miss or anything at 1100 rpm just smooth transition. i also changed the idle jet to 60 from 55. i got a few more sizes coming to experiment with if the plugs don't show what i want. never would have thought the solex was running so lean. the wide band gauge make tuning almost fool proof. and no there wouldn't be anything wrong with plumbing a pcv valve into the crankcase breather if engine had a lot of blow by. but i don't think it is necessary and if you wanted heat to intake the exhaust pipe should be better in my opinion. i would never run this setup in florida. no need for it. just an experiment to see if it would work. maybe some of you northern guy may need something like this.

[Bart]

That is some good information to remember, about how the venturi size of a carburetor & jet sizes can effect can effect the rich and lean condition of the motor. most of the members here, are using the solex pict 34 carb. but some are using solex carbs with smaller venturies, like the pict 30/31 series.

the reason i have been looking more at attempting to use the weber 32/36. was for the high end torque. to have, if needed.( like the 4 barrel carbs on the car motors. 90 percent of the time, you are just fine with the primary thottle. but when passing or going up a hill. it is nice to kick in the secondaries.) and like you found out, as many of the write ups on the 32/36 carb, they are a pain in the but, to dialed in.

again i would like to thank you for your time putting down all this data. it is a time thing, that not many care to make time to do it.
and it sounds like you have the magneto problem figured out. with all the fits this has been giving you. it has got me studying up on this and some different options also.
can't wait to see what your next adventure will be. take care and be safe out there.

[bgmcl60]

thanks bart i think the more information we can give the easier it will be for the next guy. there was at times i couldn't find some specific information and wondered why. as many people have done this but very little is posted about it and when they do it is so vague it really doesn't help. but anyway my next project is to use a 1 barrel weber and try that. 34 ich supposed to be a solex replacement carb. unless someone wants to talk me out of it.

[Corky]

Agreed...Lots of good info for anyone attempting to use this carb I liked following the whole modification... You were in deep and I would assume most wouldn't/couldn't attempt this mod without a little guidance and you've certainly set some good guidelines...

[bgmcl60]

thanks corky.

[bgmcl60]

another frogging video better quality.

https://youtu.be/vkBkWmBlJeA

[Corky]

That's like a processing boat !! ... But I did see him miss one...You could open your own restaurant at the pace you were pulling them in...Seriously though, I had no idea you could get that many in such a short time I figured it would be harder than that...It probably is and you guys are making it look easy...I see you spot them and all he has to do is look where you've highlighted....

[bgmcl60]

Yes we do have to do a lot of scouting to find the right habitat to gig. But when we do find the right place its well worth while. The short clip had no editing. What you see is what we did.

[bgmcl60]

i said i was going to test another weber and i did. it's a 1 bbl weber ich. it looks like the old carter that came on the chrysler slant 6 engine. 170 and 225 ci. it had the lean stumble and extremely lean high rpm. came with a 55 idle jet and a 145 main jet. had to go to 60 idle jet and a 170 main jet to run decent fuel ratio. has same performance as the solex 34 pict 3. idles fine no flat spot or hesitation. just a good running carburetor for the 084. a little expensive at 160 bucks but about average. i think they have quit making a cheap carburetor that will work on an 084 that is easy to make run. i did notice in all the carbs i tried they all would turn the engine to exactly the same rpm no matter what size it was. when it was jetted corrrectly for the engine they would all turn 3800 rpm. with my prop and pitch setting. all were tested without changing anything but timing.

[Corky]

Interesting that each carb showed no gain in RPMs...What does this mean ?? Here's my theory...Some have claimed an increase in RPMs by switching to a different carb... What this implies is whatever carb was being replaced wasn't tuned properly in the first place...But in your case you've tuned each carb to it's full potential,have a set prop load, and can't get any more efficiency from your engine by just swapping out carbs..As you and I both know, the engine is only going to use what it needs no matter how big the carb sitting on top is...How efficient a carb is through it's workload would be a different story...

[bgmcl60]

i've been debating on trying a dual carb setup but might cost more than i want to spend. bart has come up with a design that might work. he posted a picture of it and i didn't pay much attention to it until today. if i can get the 1 bbl weber ich to fit the intake i might try this just to see if it's possible. papee was working on something similar but making a different intake i believe and a different carb, but i havent heard anything lately so i might give it a try.

[Corky]

Yeah, Papee has the 274 mule carbs and was going to run those but I don't think he ever went ahead with it other than the planning stage..One advantage would be keeping the intake runners/carb down low compared to a down draft carb..IF that's actually an advantage is the real question..Since the turbo came into play I'm pretty sure those carbs are on the back burner for now...

[bgmcl60]

well i haven't posted for a while mainly because nothing of value has happened. i did change carbs again and tried it with one of the modified intakes papee was building and it turned out promising. i had to get an adapter to change from 4 bolt patern to 2 bolt. i thought it might make some kind of difference going from the larger vw intake to the smaller factory intake. on the 32/36 it idled better and ran leaner all through the rpm and no hesitation or stumble at 1100. i bought a 38/38 390 cfm weber and i really like the crispness of the acceleration. it just seems just a lot stronger then any of the others. but still turns the same 3800 rpm. it runs pig rich at idle and leans out too much after throttle is cracked. i know it is loading up the plugs and i need to change the idle jets to 40 from 45 and the main jet needs 150 from 145. with this carb not being progressive it has 2 idle circuits that are adjustable. when the air jets are too large it will run rich from 2 circuits working. same on the main jets with double the jets. they say it doesn't take as much jet size change to make a big difference. i'm waiting on the jets to arrive and find out if my guess will make another option for the 084. the first 2 picture is the last carb i got and the last picture was the first carb i got.