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Thread: Another project to play with

  1. #21
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Papee,
    the reason i have the question about how many amps the stator is putting out?
    is because i am looking at what type of lighting to put on the air boat.
    and will also be looking at having a small atv winch also. i know the stators can't keep up with the winch, if it is used constantly, and will draw the battery down.
    but lighting is a must have issue. lights have changed for the better these last couple of years with the LED light bars, i just don't want to overload the stator.

    an other priority is to put a ATV hand warmer on the rudder stick, nothing like keeping the fingers warm.
    (they can draw up to 40 watts)
    i don' have enough knowledge to convert all the amps to watts and all that fun stuff, but i have put hand warmers on some of my older toys, and everything else suffers.

    the reason for a winch, later down the road i plan on having a small removable boom on the boat mounted in the center of the boat, ( i may need to get a bigger boat hull, or at least higher side boards) but they are very usefull to pick items out of the water or marsh to load into the boat. my brother has this set up for loading moose in his boat.( it works quite well when you are sinking waist deep in the marsh, and the side of the air boat chest high.)
    i don't plan on picking up a whole moose, at once. but anytime you can save the back, it is worth it. i will have to find a picture of the boom set up and post it later, it might be a usefull idea to someone out there.
    so the three items that i am looking at powering, are
    lights (must have)
    ATV handwarmer on rudder stick (must have)
    a winch (down the road)

    i hope this helps in seeing why i am asking the question?

  2. #22

  3. #23
    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    I have my nav lights as well as lights I use for night fishing. I also have an anchor winch that I use often when fishing. It's about the same as an atv winch. I have no problem keeping the battery charged.
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  4. #24
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    thanks for the info. that the stator is keeping you happy.
    Papee,
    i think i will follow your lead, the reason i mention the hand warmers, the weather up here is fun, in the summer, it will be sunny and 80 degrees, then the next day it will be raining and 45 degrees. i have ended up putting hand warmers on all of my ATV's, maybe i am getting old, but having my hands out in the open breeze, when it is cold and raining, isn't so much fun anymore.
    one thing that helps if you put an hand warmer on the rudder stick is to spray a little expanding foam inside the tube. this really has helped a lot of toys that the do not put out a lot of voltage, so most the heat is radiated outwards,

  5. #25
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    been having fun playing with the 4A084 engine. I didn't like how the push rod tubes were looking so took a couple off to get a better look at them, really don't know how the bend came about, but one of these was next to the mag. attached are pictures of the worst 2.
    I ended up ordering 8 new ones, from Saturn Surplus, all of them had some major dings, and with the bow in 6 of them, I just didn't know if the O-rings would hold.
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  6. #26
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    it has been snowing almost every day for the last 2 weeks, so I took time and cleaned out the webbing in the intake manifold, after reading how the back cylinders liked to run a little lean, may be this will help, it is a fine line on how much is too much to take out. but with a 1" flap whee on an extension, it didn't take to long to make it look good, also cleaned up all the inside root passes where the intake tube were welded to the mounting flange, I have learned from rebuilding a few motors that smoothing out all inside passages for the air flow can make a big difference,
    even looking at the gaskets, to make sure there is not a little lip hanging out. a lot of little things make a big difference, with the air flow.

    I think I have more fun going though a motor and seeing what little things that can be fine tuned, and are in need of repair.
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  7. #27
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    You're right Bart, all those little improvements add up to big gains in the long run..The intake joint is definitely an area that usually needs attention...I bought an NOS intake joint in the box for future mods and that one does'nt look any different with casting flash needing attention etc...

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
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  8. #28
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Been playing with an anodizing set up this after noon, and it is going into the evening, first batch, was a push rod tube and 2 valve covers, the valve covers fizzed bid time, in the acid. And the push rod tube just hung out, after the allotted time, the shiny covers came out of the acid, almost an off army green. And didn't take any dye color. The push rod cover came mat blue,
    This is the first time posting frome the phone, need to read up, to find the part for adding pictures, but I did upload some to the face book page, I'm a lot handier on the computer, than the phone

  9. #29
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    finished for the night, not bad for the first attempt at anodizing, someday maybe i might know what i am doing, but it is fun to try something new and learn different things.
    i didn't know what would happen when i put the valve covers in the acid bath, they really fizzed a lot and continued for the 2 hours that they were in the bath, probably the silicon that is used with cast aluminum, but i like the texture that they ended up with, tomorrow i will have to drop one on the floor and see if it breaks or anything like that, they just have a good feel to them,


    the push rod tubes , a couple of them didn't have to good of a connection. and only turned a light blue, the others went dark,they all looked real uniform before i put them in the sealer tub. maybe i just overloaded that tube also. you wouldn't think 3 or 4 tubes would be overloaded in a small bucket, but something changed the appearance of all of them.
    there are a few spots and other imperfections that came out. on the cover that i made for the governor, a line came out on a corner of it, from looking at the picture with everything in the acid bath, i may have just put to many items in it at once, for the line almost looks about where one of the tubes was between it and the lead plates,
    Monday when i try it again, i think i will only put a couple of pieces in, and see if that makes a difference, for even the tubes all have spots that are kind of look like things have been overlapped.

    this isn't a quick and easy task, but i think i will like this type of coating, where it will not chip off like paint, i just have to learn how to get even, and consistent coverage.
    there has been a lot of time spent sanding, (note to self, when you sand through your fingernail, it can be painful.) so don't let your fingernails rub on the sand paper, they do go down a lot quicker than the aluminum.
    well it is getting late, but with a couple of days to think about the process, hopefully i can eliminate some some of the errors that i ended up with today.
    i am thinking, that i will run the valve covers through one more time, maybe with them having a anodized coat on them, they may take some color the next time. where i purchased some extras from Saturn Surplus. it doesn't hurt to play around, and see what will work
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  10. #30
    Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    So-Weeeeeet

  11. #31
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Hi Bart, looks good !!! Not too bad for your first attempt...I'm liking the satin finish....Temps, humidity and precise timing are very important on plating...A highly polished part going in the vat will give the shine everyone is accustomed to....Annodizing in peticular will bring out even the smallest of imperfections I've thrown away many perfect "appearing" trim pieces knowing small pits would be amplified with the annodizing bright dip... If you don't like the end result you can always submerge the part in sodium hydroxide {lye, as in drain cleaner} that will strip the annodizing in short order...Then I sand/buff the trim to check for imperfections before sending them out for replating...

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  12. #32
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Thanks for the encouragement, next week, I will take a little more time. Picking up a few things in Anchorage, this weekend, it is fun when you have to drive 300 miles one way. To hit the home Depot, lowes and other stores. Shopping local works some of the time, but you just don't get the selection. Shopping on the net just isn't the same for some parts and pieces. But things are starting to look better, just can't wait to get this part of the build done, so them I can clean things up and start on the next phase, but I am kind of waiting for the snow to melt, so I can put up a wall tent. Almost every where else in the state there is no snow, and I still have almost 3 feet of it still on the lawn. Go figure.

  13. #33
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    was able to do a little anodizing on the parts and pieces last week, finding time is always fun, but it was fun to learn what to do and what really doesn't work, but I like the coating, because it doesn't chip like the paint. But the nice thing about it is if it doesn't turn out how you like, you just put it back in the lye bath, which will strip the anodize off of it, and start again, the prop hubs really took a good shine, but the tubes ended up being kind of a flat color, lesson learned is to always wear gloves when handling during the process, on the intake tubes, when putting the 2 different colors on them, the first color was simple, just sat them in the bucket of dye, but when I put the other end in the dye, I ended up trying to hold them, trying to hold them steady for 20 minutes, was not that much fun. I probably will redo them in a week or so, and see what happens.
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  14. #34
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    so I purchased another set of push rod tubes to see if the finish was any better than what was on the motor, there were still a lot of dings on the new ones, so I took the better of the bunch and colored them. really didn't look at the expanded lengths that are on the ends of the tubes, until I installed them.
    Upon seeing what looked like an optical illusion.
    I had to pull them out and see if the lengths were the same or if something had went wrong.
    well it confirmed it, that I had 2 different castings of the push rod tubes, which I didn't notice before.
    now I am thinking of going back and separating the castings by color, just to keep things looking the same,

    also it looks like some time this motor, had a new head put on the #2 cylinder, just from looking at the casting that holds the O-rings for the push rod tubes, is different than the other cylinder heads.
    I am still thinking that the motor doesn't have much time on it. when I purchase it, I was told that the meter had only 43 hours.
    but seeing some of the cooling fins, that are bent and other minor damage here and there, it probably fell sometime.
    but just from looking at how clean the inside of the heads are, i think i will be happy with this motor once i get on to the next part of the build
    one precaution that i have done is that the motor is tied off to the rafters, with a rope. Just in case of an earthquake, or something like that.
    i really don't want it falling off, and breaking something else, ( some of the things, you have to worry about living here).
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  15. #35
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    it has been fun playing with the 2 motors, this last winter, a little about the Cuyuna motor, i have replaced all the seals,& bearings in both the crankcase and the gear box, I ended up pimping it out a little, I was wishing that I had the righ stuff to anodize the cast aluminum on the motor, but I really did not want to end up with a olive green motor. the only item that I was able to anodize was the prop hub and face plate.
    all that is left is to get the linkage for the carbs, and it will be good to go.

    and then i am back to the dilemma with a hull that is only 4 feet wide,
    it came with a lightweight 2 stroke motor, and the seat on it was almost level with the top of the sides, to keep the center of gravity down low,
    with it sitting like it is, the motor would be sitting 8 inches lower than the original motor,
    with that I will be needing to redo the motor stand, and prop cage, but anything to lower the center of gravity can be good, to a certain extent.

    with the 2 stroke motor i could even hang it upside down and really get the center of gravity almost 18 inches lower. the only downside is keeping the plugs from being fouled out if/when the carbs leak.

    at the moment i am thinking that if i am wanting to use the 4A084 motor, i either need to split the hull i have and add 1 to 2 feet in the middle, or just build me a new hull.
    the plus side if I build a new hull, then I will eventually have 2 boats (this may be what I end up with)
    I really think I just need to get started on the motor stands, and see what motor will feel like, sitting on the boat hull that I have at the moment.

    the pros for using the 4A084, is the reliability, & fuel economy of this motor,
    the con will be the weight for the small hull, if i do not change anything,
    about the only thing left to do on the 4A084 is maybe change out the carb, i have been reading a lot that has been posted about the VW carb, both on this site and other places,
    but then i read about mukini carbs that have been tried on them. and i have every things on hand to go this route

    i am thinking that the biggest problem the intake has, is that for every corner and bend that the fuel has to travel, the fuel is separating out of air, with using the VW carb. and redesigning the intake, the flow will be more even & consistent to all four cylinders, where as it is, the back 2 cylinders will always be lacking.

    the pro's about the cuyuna motor, only 70 lbs. with motor, gearbox, & prop.
    the con's are having the 2 stoke oil film ending up on everything, burning 2 to 4 gallons of gas an hour, and the good old reliability issue, when it runs to lean due to temperature or elevation, there goes the motor, i will have pyrometers, on the motor, but who is going to watch it all of the time, a company called Starting line Products, used to make a devise called a stutter box, that was attached to the pyrometer, and when the temp. went above a set point, it would cut out every other spark, so you would know, that you were running to close too the edge. and are needing to make some changes. but i don't see this around much, since the most 2 strokes are EFI now days.

    well enough for rambling on. just a few of the things that i have been thinking about.
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  16. #36
    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    I moved this to the builds forum, lots of great work here. Thanks for contributing!
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  17. #37
    Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Yes, looking very good/nice job.

  18. #38
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Hey Bart,
    I really enjoyed seeing your pics on the Cuyuna engine! I had one just like it on my first airboat, well, actually it was a Rockwell JLO 2F-440 (Cuyuna bought out the Rockwell but kept the engine pretty much the same). I had it mounted on a 14' Jon boat and it did pretty well considering. I still have the cage/engine mount structure which I made from 1/2" black iron pipe which fastened right on the boat's transom similar to a boat engine. It was all one unit with two rudders and a control stick & throttle for sitting in the back of the boat and could be lifted on and off at will. I was going to find another Cuyuna for it but I think I'll just sell it instead. As soon as the snow melts here I'll post some pics of it on the boat.
    11'6" Marty Bray Hull
    4A084 Continental
    Circle "S" 1.69:1 Reducer
    67" Whirlwind Razor X Prop
    SS Rigging

  19. #39
    Junior Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Aerokirk, did you have the belt drive, or a gear box on the Rockwell?
    a couple of concerns i have about the gear box, when i purchased it, it was dry, with no drain or fill plug in it, i was told that the motor was started and ran a little bit about 8 years earlier,
    when i opened up the gear box i could see where there was some light chatter marks from the bearings. the first conclusion was that the gear box was ran dry and over heated the bearings, which would cause the outer race to skip a little bit. but the damage was not consistent with that theory, a couple of the bearing had a little noise, but they all probably could have lasted, but replacing them is a cheaper insurance.
    and when i put each of the new bearings into just half of the case, it was a very tight fit. (one time when rebuilding an other motor, one of the crank bearings had spun, so i used some shim stock and wrapped the outside of the bearing, made it a tight fit again, that was 5 years ago and the motor is still running strong.)

    but the other concern that i have read about is that there is not enough side support for the bearings in the 2SI gear boxes, and after running for a while, they will build up heat, and due to the apposing side force that the gears put on each other while turning. that the driven shaft or bearing will want to move out of the case.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4UsKoqDcKc here is a utube on how one has attempted to resolve the problem.

    on the NOVA gear box that i have, the inner bearing on the driven shaft sits inside a recessed groove, and for the outer bearing, there is no recessed groove in the housing, but they have a spacer that is press fitted on the shaft that makes a snug fit between the bearing collar and the prop hub. so i really don't see this giving me the problems that the 2SI gear box has, even though the nova gear box is an older style.
    it just gives me things to think about, when you have a older gear box. that you can't purchase replacement gears and shafts for anymore.
    i will post some pictures of this tomorrow.
    one more question. about the Rockwell motor on your first air boat, did you notice a lot of 2 stroke oil film on anything? at the moment i am thinking that if i have the correct mix, most of the exhaust should be sucked past the prop and if anything i would notice it more on the rudders than anything else. but i could be wrong.

    added some of the pictures of the gear box with the original bearings, where chatter marks are visible, also in the gear box.
    the last picture is what could be a problem, that i didn't think about.
    when I anodized the hub. I left it in the solution to put about 1 mil of anodizing on the hub.
    I haven't torqued down the hub yet. I don't know if it will close the gap, or if I will need to make a spacer for it.
    when I took it apart. there was no gap.
    I forgot about when I added 1 mill thickness to the inside of the hub it might change the tolerance. note to self. (next time buy the tape they sell for anodizing, to mask off critical areas).
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    Last edited by Bart; 04-18-2016 at 12:30 PM.

  20. #40
    Member aerokirk's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Sorry, can't help you on the gear box as mine was direct drive. Regarding the oil film, that was a constant problem as there would always be a film of oil on the prop after using. The major problem with the oil was on the flex exhaust pipe between the engine and muffler where the oil was of thick black tar consistency from picking up exhaust gases and would drip all over the bottom of the boat and gas tank. The 084 runs so much cleaner!
    11'6" Marty Bray Hull
    4A084 Continental
    Circle "S" 1.69:1 Reducer
    67" Whirlwind Razor X Prop
    SS Rigging

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