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Thread: Another project to play with

  1. #121
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Hey Bart, how close are the two tachs with the readouts ??? Nice work I bet you're happy with the progress !!

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  2. #122
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    well i have taken some time to wire up at least one working EGT gauge, at least between that and the tack i can get it somewhat in the ball park, waiting on some main jets to bump it up from 220 to 230 or 240.
    but in the meantime i raised the needle jets up one notch. but i won't get a good reading untill i get some more gas in the tank and thin out the mix.
    but on a good note the compression is still at 145 psi on each cylinder.
    just ended up fixing a couple of things on the motor mounts and getting some brackets made up to try only one rudder, and see how loosing 14 lbs of the back of the boat, will change anything.
    the boat feels real stable, for its size, but as they say on a hull this size almost every pound counts. if i don't widen it this winter, I am looking at installing a lithium battery http://earthxbatteries.com/
    which weighs only a couple of pounds, if i did this i would loose about 15 lbs.
    as far as comparing the 2 tachs i will include some pictures, that saves a lot of words, but all in all the tiny tach is running a little lower, but when i followed the directions and wrapped it around just one spark plug wire, the readings would go all over the place, but would stay consistent, as long as i put pressure on the red wire. so i called the the tec. line and after explaining what was happening, it was suggested that i try wrapping it like i have in the picture, and doing so it settled down and is giving me a consistent reading. i really don't understand why it was jumping all over the place, just glad that they had a solution. i just don't know at the moment which tach is more accurate. but it does give me a starting point.
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  3. #123
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    They're not very far off from each other I'd be OK using either one alone and calling it good...Strange how they suggested wiring between the two... But if it works so be it..Glad to hear the engine has good compression now you can fine tune it and find it's true potential..

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  4. #124
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    so a little engine work update, back when i was putting new seals in the Cuyuna 460, the PTO seal that i was sent, seemed just a little on the tight side, as far as slipping over the flywheel hub. i visited with the vender about it. and expressed my concern that i thought the seal should have a center dia. of 48mm. not the 45mm that was sent.
    he informed me that it needed to be that tight to keep a good seal. (but as you know, sometimes the end user just has to do things a little different) so i purchased a seal with the inside measurement of 48mm.
    well to make a long story short. i should have listened. the seal that i used worked good for the first few times. but now that the motor has run a little bit, it would start leaking fresh air past it, as soon as it would warm up.
    up until last night i was thinking it was a carburetor problem, until i remembered installing this seal in question. then it all made sense, why the pyro was running up to 800/1000 degrees at idle, and it didn't mater what adjustment i did to the carb, it kept reading the same.
    needless to say, tonight i changed out the seal to what has been recommended, with a 45mm inside diameter. man what a difference, the temp is staying where it should be at idle. and it is running real smooth.
    also sometime this week i will be getting the 14 degree blocks. i am getting excited i can't wait to see if it will be acting like its old self.
    there is supposed to be a good rain storm coming up the gulf for the next week or so. so i hope there is a lull in it and i can get out and see if this solved the issue.
    sometimes i am my own biggest problem. but that is how i learn from my mistakes also.
    on a entertaining note, last night when we took it out to the lake to play/ test it out. there were a few groups of peaple out there, and one had a fire next to the bank, i didn't think nothing off it. i would pull up to the beach, so i could work on the carbs on somewhat solid ground.
    well the last time i came in, after it failed miserably again, my wife started waving for me to pull up on the other side of the trucks. i guess when i took off, the prop wash moved their fire a couple of feet back, and that group decided that my airboat wasn't so cool after all. I guess if i had embers & small pieces of burning sticks, from my fire being blown all over, i wouldn't be to happy about it also. live and learn.
    Last edited by Bart; 08-08-2017 at 03:58 AM.

  5. #125
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    it hasn't been the best weather for getting out and playing this last week, but i have learned a few things, and am on the way back to getting the motor tuned up
    so a lot of the problems i have come across, is mostly of my own making. at least to some extent.
    so the last time i had the boat out and it was running somewhat okay, other than the prop not having enough pitch and at half throttle, the motor running up to 6000
    rpm. it was then it started to bog down. and the rpm's started dropping.
    upon looking over the motor, one of the choke adjustment cables had loosened up a little. so i just tightened it back down. and didn't think any more about it. until 2 nights ago when i pulled off both the carbs to verify that all the passageways were clean, and see what the sizes were of all the different jetting in the carbs. and i noticed that there was no tension on the choke when i unscrewed it., needless to say, most of the problems that i have been having, has been due to one carb being slightly choked out.
    the problem that i have been coming across lately, is it would take for ever to get the motor started, and once it started, every thing was fine to a point. it would start on the first pull, but now i realize it was flooding out the mag cylinder, just a little.
    so last night i cranked it over for quite a while and it wouldn't even fire. but as soon as i put the choke fully on, it fired up on the first pull.
    i have been scratching my head over this, thinking about it, needing to choke an motor when it is 60 degrees.
    so here it is again, having the motor set up, as i received it.
    now having the manufactures recommended base carb settings. this is what i am going to set it at tonight before i attempt to start it. change the main jets to 260, & raise the pilot jets from 25 to 35.
    i have the 14 degree pitch blocks installed, so i will also find out if that will keep the rpms in check.
    it has been raining pretty good every night that i get home from work. but maybe if i can see some significant improvement,
    i will run out to the lake and really get wet.
    for the most part i can only chuckle at myself. 15 years ago, i would have had this figured out in no time. but then i was playing with 2 stroke carbed motors all the time. now with most of the sleds having EFI, it is amazing how fast a person can forget, even the simple things,
    but maybe this will awake some working knowledge that i have forgotten over time, if i attempt to do a duel carb setup on the 084 motor.
    so many times it is just a very simple thing, that can make a person really scratch their heads. i know it was frustrating me, trying to figure out what had changed. when i put the 2.65 gear box on, the motor was a pain in the but to start. but it was a factor of a couple of things, a little extra silicon resting under the bearings and seals. that was throwing the drive shaft out off alignment, and the 1 carb flooding out, and the other carb running on the lean side.
    maybe this will correct most of the issues. at the moment i am thinking so.
    with the taller gear box, yes it is turning 400 rpms faster. around 2600 at 6500 rpms. but i really didnt want to go to set the prop angle at 18 degrees. which per Ultra-Prop, will create another set of problems down the road.

    don't mean to be long winded. but maybe some of this trouble shooting headaches that i am leaning and going through might help someone else down the road.

  6. #126
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    success, at least to some what.
    well installed 35 pilot jets, and 240 mains, and adjusted the air screw to 1 turn out. put the choke on, 3 pulls, and it started real easy, ( now this is the type of starting that i am used to, and I didn't even have to pull that hard) and came up to speed. the motor sounds like there is just a little more umph behind it now. but it was 10 at night. so i didn't run it up past 4000. that prop noise can get loud.
    it will be a couple of weeks before i can get it out on the lake. and see what this is going to finally do. taking the kid down to Idaho and getting him off to college.
    for the first time in a couple of weeks I feeling more positive about finding the true potential of this motor.
    so i thought i would see how much it rained today, i left the plug in the boat. and there was about 4" of water waiting to be pumped out. at least i can see how fast the bilge pump works on a trial run.

  7. #127
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    the carb tuning is bringing back a lot of memories, it will run great for 10 to 15 minutes and then it slowly went to the rich side. but for a little bit , i was on step, running at almost an idle, and then it went to rich. but it is running so much better. a few more times and this is going to be dialed in. at least for this temperature. 2 strokes are just so much fun.
    but it seems like it is getting simpler to drive. visiting with a friend about how hard it is to turn to the right, and he showed me the trim tabs that he has on the middle of his rudders on his boat.
    for i was asking about the problem that i am seeing, at the moment if i let go of the rudder stick when on the throttle. i will go in a mad circle. and i dont think this would end well.
    i could just see me go flying out into the water. but it could look good if someone was filming it.
    so i put both idle jets back to 25, and the mag main to 220, then backed out the air mixture screw to 1.25 turns
    just writing this down so in a couple of weeks i can remember what i did. when i get back to playing on this.


    https://youtu.be/HWZcHyvZMjw
    https://youtu.be/TG5oeAB0REQ

  8. #128
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Let the fun begin
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  9. #129
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Maybe I went overboard on the width. Now it will be 65" wide at the aft. Adding 16+ inches to the width and it started raining. What fun it seems like this is where I was last year. But what a difference it makes having a aluminum welder. And now I may have a better idea of how to finish this up. Still a couple of days on the hull. Then a new cage and maybe a new stand for the motor. Just have to see how it all fits up
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  10. #130
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    it was a good day, even though it rained for most of the day, if living here has taught me one thing, if you want something done, you better not wait for the rain to stop. at least with the rain. i don't have the breeze, so the shielding gas does its job.
    i thought about using 1x2 channel to stiffen the center of the hull. but the local shop didn't have any in, but he has some 1x2 tube, which actually worked out great,
    I am glad that last winter I built that roller. it came in very handy, to form the tubing to the plate. I first tried it with a stick of conduit, to get an idea of where the different slopes were on the bow. It didn't take to much time, there was roughly only 22 inches of tubing that i had to worry about. we only needed to remove it 5 times to get the correct profile.
    my friend that borrowed it last spring, forgot to bring back the crank wheel. but a cordless drill worked wonders,
    with keeping it at the same profile as the original channels, i had to deal with 3 different radius in the 22 inches, what fun.
    but without this roller i would had to resort to cutting the back side, of the tubing, and pray that i would be able to match the cuts to the profile. i could see where it could take some time.
    in looking at the time stamp on my pictures, from the first one bending the conduit to having the tube all welded to the hull. was only 40 minutes, so it defiantly is a time saver.
    another big plus with this style of bender, if i have to make multiple pieces with the same profile. i can line up the original one on the outside of the pillow blocks. ( am getting exited about making more gunnels for my next hull)
    my next project for the bender will to make the new hoops for the cage,
    so much for getting excited, i just heard a big crash outside, the wind picked up the portable awning, and it landed about 30 feet away, 1 leg is still straight. just how am I going to explain this to the wife???

    next on the agenda, is to finish up the aft, building it up just a little higher, never did like how shallow it was. i will be raising it up about 3 more inches, so after making a slope for the prop. the narrowest part should be about 15 to 16 inches, I will get that figured out tomorrow.
    and this is when i have to start looking at will it be simpler to build a new engine stand or attempt to at add 4 to 6 inches to the existing one. this answer I will find out tomorrow when put the old stand back in and see how everything starts to line up.
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    Last edited by Bart; 05-19-2018 at 04:05 AM.

  11. #131
    Member yamahaulerG1's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Nice job I believe that's one decision you will never regret.

  12. #132
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    Re: Another project to play with

    nice job bart. i was going to do that to casey's boat but after he rebuilt the stand it ran so good i decided not to. after he gets good at tig welding with the new welder he might do it himself. to many projects and more piling up. just what i need to keep me going. by all means have fun what your doing.
    4a084
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  13. #133
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    Great job Bart.. How does the new floor thickness compare to the old stuff ??? Once you have the hull finished I'd check to make sure the bottom doesn't "oil can" when you walk on it...You may need to add some cross bracing in a few areas to keep the bottom profile intact...It will be interesting to see just how much it raises the hull out of the water with the increased area...This sure is just what you've needed to make this rig more enjoyable and much more stable...You've got plenty of HP I bet the performance will jump dramatically...

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



  14. #134
    Member Bart's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    corky,
    are you refering to something along the lines of what you did on your build? like the picture below. with the side & floor bracing about 4 feet from the bow. along with the front cover plate bracing.
    good catch.
    i have been thinking of what to put across it all the way in 2 places. to keep the flex to a minim. that's the fun of splitting the hull. a person really wouldn't want to be out on the water and have it fold up on them.





  15. #135
    Super Moderator Corky's Avatar
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    Re: Another project to play with

    You may not need the uprights maybe just some cross bracing between the center 3 where the new floor spans...I guess it all depends on how you tie in the bow and transom bracing across the top...

    Aluminum .120 14' X 76" hull
    Teledyne 4a084-4 engine
    Circle S 1.69:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind "Razor X" prop



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