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Thread: aewrigh's build

  1. #1
    Member aewrigh's Avatar
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    aewrigh's build

    I have posted on here before but the thread died and I lost interest. I had this hull built originally for a mud motor but I now have decided that I want a mini airboat. Here are some pics to get things going.....
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    Member aewrigh's Avatar
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Here is one more....
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    Member aewrigh's Avatar
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    What do I need to do with this boat?! I am looking for it to run decent with 2 guys and gear....if it would run dry for short distances that would be great as well. I will mainly be using the boat to run limb lines/jugs in creeks and possibly in rivers to bowfish. It would be nice to be able to cross 2 inch deep riffles and the occasional log jam that gets in my way....and possibly slide across short distances of mud. The boat measures out to 11.5 feet long with a bottom width of 4.5 in the back and 5 foot in the front. The top is much wider as you can see in the pics. The hull is 1/8 inch aluminum. I need as much help as I can get. What setup do I need to run? Can I run a prop with a diameter close to the top width of my boat or do I have to stay smaller? What is optimum? Two blade or 3 blade? Please give me part numbers, locations, prices, etc. What material do I need to build stands and cage out of? I am looking to act as soon as I can sell this mud motor. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Pappee originally told me I could run a 4a084....I have one located for 600 if the guy will call me back.

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    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Nice hull. Yes depending on your preferences and mechanical ability either a rotax or the 084 with reduction. Chuck at Airboat Pros has a nice reduction/starter setup for the 084 if you decide to go that way. I use 3/4 and 1/2 conduit for my cage but others just use 1/2. Your prop should be 4" smaller than the width of your boat to give proper clearances.
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Papee you originally told me I wouldn't need reduction for the 084? I am all about doing it right so I am just curious as to the change of heart? I tried to go to airboat pros but the website seemed to be down. How much is that reduction setup? After seeing pics of my hull, do you think it will work or should I have a different one built? I just don't want to be disappointed. When you talk about your conduit, are you talking emt or rigid aluminum? Are there any good links to a build so that I would have something to go by when building my stand/rigging? I am guessing the cage is always separate? Also, will I need to build in adjustment so that I can tilt the prop or move it forward/backwards? My boat has some gussets in the back where the transom meets the gunwhale so at the transom I have 57 inches between the sides, but just 7 inches forward, the gussets end and the top of the boat is 70 inches wide inside to inside.

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    I may have originally mentioned that you could use the 084 direct drive but I seen in your post that you want to run dry. A direct drive 084 on that hull will not run dry. Chucks website is up thanks for mentioning it, I take care of Chucks website stuff and it did have a problem. It is up now at http://airboatpros.com
    As far as rigging it can be done a few different ways. There are some build here that show the cage and rigging being built. The cages are made out of emt conduit, Depending on the motor you choose there are some pretty detailed builds on here. I have my cage and rigging in one piece. I can take 10 bolts out and my whole engine, cage, rudders, and seats come out in one piece. I can do this with the engine and prop mounted or out.

    The gussets will not be in the way of anything down that low so you can use your total width for that figure, 70"

    Here is some 084 builds
    http://miniairboatassoc.com/forum/sh...23-Dan-s-build
    http://miniairboatassoc.com/forum/sh...-Steve-s-Build
    http://miniairboatassoc.com/forum/sh...bin-s-new-mini
    http://miniairboatassoc.com/forum/sh...ding-an-aircat!

    There are more if you look through the builds forum
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Thanks for the reading material. I can definitely build that rigging. Okay so if I go with my 70 inch width, which prop do I run with the 084? 2 or 3 blade? Wood or composite? I took a look at chuck's website but there were no products? I can call him Monday. I saw in a drawing that one guy had the tips of his prop going just below the top of his transom? How much can the blade stick into the transom or is this not optimal at all? I have already had a few calls on my mud motor so I need to start looking at parts and resources.

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Also, where in relation to the transom should the prop ride? As close to the transom as possible or what?

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Give yourself 4 to 6" from the transom. You may be disappointed though with the width of your hull. She is a little narrow for a fan. But that is my 2 cents. But then again, papee has more experience with the Rotax than I do. In fact I have NO experience so just take what I say with a grain of salt. Do you still have that mud motor? If so, and the price is right, I may take it off your hands. Good luck friend.

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    You're getting ahead of yourself a bit , you need to determine the motor you are going to run and the reduction before you can decide on the prop. It will most likely be the longest that can fit in your cage and a three blade. Chuck has this all figured out what works best with his reduction. eskomoboy probably has something similar to what you are thinking of.

    As far as your hull, in fact I am writing a online book right now that explains all this and hope to have it up soon as a guide for guys wanting to build a boat. I am also trying to get a formula together as far as hull sizes and drags.

    That hull you have is an interesting piece, it looks to be made to get on plane quick and be fast on the water. This may hurt you wanting to run dry, a wider hull will work better for running dry but will be a hindrance on water causing more drag. A wider hull is not always the best solution. For example I run a 13' 8" x 5 foot aluminum hull with a direct drive 084 and I see the same top speeds as guys with a reduction and a wider hull. This is because of the extra drag on the hull because of the extra width on plane, my boat has less area touching the water on plane which means less drag and more speed. As I said this does give me a disadvantage when trying to run dry.

    As far as the tip below the transom, on a big boat you don't have to be concerned about losing a bit of thrust by lowering the prop. On a mini you want to get every bit of push you can get so I like to keep all the prop above the transom. This is also done on the bigger boats to keep the center of gravity of the boat lower in the boat. We are not working with the weight the big boys are so this is not as big a concern as getting that extra push.

    I hope to come up with numbers supporting my statements soon but for now they are just my ideas on building a mini. Other people have different ideas, but I stick to what works for me. We are also working on a dual carb setup for the 084 as well as a budget throttle body fuel injection system. I have a lot of irons in the fires so nothing gets done quick around here.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    I p.m.'d Chuck and he said he would check out my thread. Hopefully he will chime in soon. As far as engine, the guy finally emailed me back. He has a new one in crate for $600. He said it has been outside and is dusty/dirty. He also said he has some used ones. Is this a good price? I thought about offering the full price if he would throw in a used one for spare parts. My hull, I was told, has a "turning chine" crimped into the side to help it turn with a mud motor. Are you saying that I will probably have trouble running dry but will probably have pretty good top end on the water? It is wider on the bottom front and tapers to the 4.5 feet in the back so the majority of the bottom is wider than the back. The prop tip being below the hull is just something I saw in one of the guys drawings on here. I didn't feel that it would be optimal because if it is anything like a radiator fan, all of the air comes off of the tips of the blades so you end up with the highest vacuum in a doughnut shape near the tips of the fan blades......based on this, I would assume most of the thrust is in the same pattern near the tips. I have decided that the 084 is the best budget-minded engine solution....so based on that, we can go from there. So if I get this engine, and I have 70 inches of room, I need to know what reduction and what prop I need. If I can gather all of the parts, it won't take me long to build it if I can find the time. I just like to have a running parts list going so that I can buy the stuff as the money rolls in. I am just extremely iffy on my hull if you guys are the least bit. I really want to be able to run dry at least over wet mud or sand so that I can cross troublesome spots in creeks and rivers. I'm not looking to climb hills or run across completely dry ground from a dead standstill. I just don't want to invest the money and be disappointed. It would take me longer but I could sell my hull and have another built if that is what I really need to do.

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    I still have the mud motor but I have had 3 or 4 guys interested. I am currently fighting with the manufacturer to get me a proper MSO so that I can get the title work done. I owe a bit over 2800 on the MM but I would take a little loss at 2800 just to start this new project. It has less than 2 hours on it and pushes this hull 24 mph with me and one other guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by kajunoutlaw View Post
    Give yourself 4 to 6" from the transom. You may be disappointed though with the width of your hull. She is a little narrow for a fan. But that is my 2 cents. But then again, papee has more experience with the Rotax than I do. In fact I have NO experience so just take what I say with a grain of salt. Do you still have that mud motor? If so, and the price is right, I may take it off your hands. Good luck friend.

  13. #13

    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Hi Aewrigh heres a video of my new engine set-up with a cog belt reduction new plenum and 42mm mukini carb. Chuck is doing this project for me and with the new intake set-up I hope to gain a few horses and Chuck is also making me a 4 in 1 exhaust to hopefully gain a couple more ponies.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RslIuJx2uk4
    You can also check out some of my other videos
    http://www.youtube.com/user/stametis?feature=mhee

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    How much will all of that cost? I found another 2 engines in Dallas. Look brand new like they have been stored inside. They are a 4a084-3 and the others are a 4a084-4. What is the difference? This new guy wants 500 for one engine or 850 for both.

  15. #15

    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Aewrigh you can contact Chuck at Airboat Pros and he'll give you the prices of for what he's doing to my engine. I'm hoping he will have another video up by the weekend with the 4 in 1 exhaust complete and a prop mounted on the engine do the final tuning.
    Nick

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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Okay aewrigh, If you have 4 other people interested in your MM then by all means let them have it. I was trying to get something for nothing LMAO! I'm just kidding. I am putting all of my money into my airboat at this time and don't have any to spare. Like Papee I have too many irons in the fire. BACK to your hull, 4'6" wide is too narrow in my opinion. #1 you will be carrying your weight higher, hence making the boat top heavy. #2 the more you draft, the more water you are pushing to get the boat on plane. #3 the wider the hull, the less PSI you putting down. Therefore, the less it takes to give you forward movement. If I were you, I would just widen that hull. You already have the foundation for a good air boat.

  17. #17
    Member aewrigh's Avatar
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Okay so what is the optimum hull width going to be for a 12 foot boat with the 4a084? I talked to my builder today about quoting me a 12x6 in the traditional airboat design. I also talked to the guy with the engines and he said they were rebuilt by the military and preserved. I have talked him into 650 for two of them. Is this a good deal?

  18. #18

    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Thats a pass good deal bye.

  19. #19
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by kajunoutlaw View Post
    Okay aewrigh, If you have 4 other people interested in your MM then by all means let them have it. I was trying to get something for nothing LMAO! I'm just kidding. I am putting all of my money into my airboat at this time and don't have any to spare. Like Papee I have too many irons in the fire. BACK to your hull, 4'6" wide is too narrow in my opinion. #1 you will be carrying your weight higher, hence making the boat top heavy. #2 the more you draft, the more water you are pushing to get the boat on plane. #3 the wider the hull, the less PSI you putting down. Therefore, the less it takes to give you forward movement. If I were you, I would just widen that hull. You already have the foundation for a good air boat.

    As you see, I march to the beat of a different drummer, I think that hull is perfect. I'm not sure what you mean by example #1, we are putting less than half the weight about the same height as bigger boats so I don't think the cog comes into play here at all, I have a 5ft bottom and I can stand on the back edge of my boat and bounce on it at 250lbs and I can't dip it in the water.

    As far as #2 this is true but you can also go too far, the added width of a boat also adds drag when trying to push it over the top(the point just before getting on plane). Once you are on plane the less contact area to the water the faster your boat will be. His hull is wider at the point where it pushes over the top helping it get on plane.

    #3 This is also true but more info is needed, while that area helps you when running dry it can also be a hindrance on the water. The more sq footage there is touching the water the more drag you have slowing the boat down. Think about it, we are asking a motor with a lot less HP and thrust to do the same job as the big motors using these wide hulls. I would not expect a hull the same size as a big boat to perform the same with a lot less hp and thrust.

    I would love to have that hull to show exactly what can be done. Unfortunately my wallet does not support my wants. There is a new boat out now that has a design almost what he has but has a step and it is working very nice.
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    Re: Okay so it begins.....need all the suggestions/help I can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papee View Post
    As you see, I march to the beat of a different drummer, I think that hull is perfect. I'm not sure what you mean by example #1, we are putting less than half the weight about the same height as bigger boats so I don't think the cog comes into play here at all, I have a 5ft bottom and I can stand on the back edge of my boat and bounce on it at 250lbs and I can't dip it in the water.

    As far as #2 this is true but you can also go too far, the added width of a boat also adds drag when trying to push it over the top(the point just before getting on plane). Once you are on plane the less contact area to the water the faster your boat will be. His hull is wider at the point where it pushes over the top helping it get on plane.

    #3 This is also true but more info is needed, while that area helps you when running dry it can also be a hindrance on the water. The more sq footage there is touching the water the more drag you have slowing the boat down. Think about it, we are asking a motor with a lot less HP and thrust to do the same job as the big motors using these wide hulls. I would not expect a hull the same size as a big boat to perform the same with a lot less hp and thrust.

    I would love to have that hull to show exactly what can be done. Unfortunately my wallet does not support my wants. There is a new boat out now that has a design almost what he has but has a step and it is working very nice.
    Papee, you are speaking from experience and I can't argue with that. I tend to forget that I will be running an aircraft engine. But, I was taking into consideration him being able to run a little longer prop. But then again, even at 4'6" wide, he can still run a prop 50" prop. Shucks, my bad.

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