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Thread: Couple questions

  1. #1

    Couple questions

    Thhe 084 looks to be self contained. Why not use it that way? And. If I go direct drive at first would that be a mistake? I would have to change the prop, cage, motor stand? I think I just answered that one.

  2. #2
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit64 View Post
    Thhe 084 looks to be self contained. Why not use it that way? And. If I go direct drive at first would that be a mistake? I would have to change the prop, cage, motor stand? I think I just answered that one.
    Bandit,

    When you mentioned the self contained thing, I "assume" that you were talking about a 4A084 with all the cooling shrouds, flywheel, etc., as it was used by the government. I have seen a couple folks who've planned to use them that way, but have not heard how it worked out. Most folks strip 'em down to reduce the weight. I didn't weigh it, but I'd guess that I stripped off about 50# of stuff from mine.

    Would it work in the self contained state? Yeah, probably, but you'd have an extra, unneeded 50# or so that you'd be carrying around.
    So your performance wouldn't be nearly as good as it could be. Weight is VERY important in a Mini.

    If you were to use it in the self contained state, you'd be tempted to use the original 24V starter, which would require a second battery.

    Even MORE weight. I'd suggest stripping it down.

    Now, if you started off DD, with the intention of later going to a reduction, you "could" build your cage and motor stand so they'd be able to handle that future change, if you plan far enough ahead. You'd still probably have to change props though.

    Maybe Papee can give you more insight.

    Good luck with it!

    Please keeps us informed.

    Thanks,

    Duane
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

  3. #3
    Thanks Duane, that's what I figured.

    My motor should be here in a week or so. I may have to confirm what all would get stripped off it.

    The more I get into this the more it scares me. It's pretty ambitious for me. I have built several multi million dollar houses and feel the same way when I first look at the plans. But once I get into it and take it one step at a time it all works out. I am moving forward and will order the aluminum tomorrow.

    Thanks for the luck all have given me, I need it.

  4. #4
    Senior Geezer buster's Avatar
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    Bandit,

    If you decide to strip of the sheet metal (which is for cooling), just add an oil cooler and you should be good to go. I did mine that way and also had Cyl Head Temp indicators on all four cylinders, and they allways stayed in the correct range.

    Dave
    IF YOU WON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, THEN JUST STAND IN FRONT OF THEM!

  5. #5
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Bandit,

    Here is what it may look like in its self contained state. Yeah, it's running there. It was VERY loud with no mufflers.



    If you decide to strip it down, you're going to want to strip it down until it looks more like this.





    I thought I had better photos, before I put the Arrow Prop reduction on it, but can't locate them right now.

    Once you get started, it's pretty basic. Just strip off everything that doesn't look like an airplane engine.

    The ONLY difficult part for me was pulling the flywheel off, because I didn't have an appropriate puller. So I borrowed one, and it was easy then.

    If you have questions once you get into it, just ask.

    Good Luck !

    Duane
    Last edited by Duane Scarborough; 02-27-2012 at 06:34 PM.
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

  6. #6
    Duane, it's funny but when I started researching the 084's I found your motor in google images. That thing looks so good I said I've gotta have one. Great paint too.
    I see you have some mods done that I've read a little about. I will get back to those when I get to that point.

    I guess the main reason I asked the original question was that I see everyone is using different starters ( then the one it comes with). I didn't remember the 24 volt thing. It makes sense to nix it.

    I will study your pics when I do mine, thanks.

    Is there any advantage to putting the starter on the reduction side with a ring gear vs. the way you have yours?

  7. #7
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit64 View Post
    Duane, it's funny but when I started researching the 084's I found your motor in google images. That thing looks so good I said I've gotta have one. Great paint too.
    I see you have some mods done that I've read a little about. I will get back to those when I get to that point.

    I guess the main reason I asked the original question was that I see everyone is using different starters ( then the one it comes with). I didn't remember the 24 volt thing. It makes sense to nix it.

    I will study your pics when I do mine, thanks.

    Is there any advantage to putting the starter on the reduction side with a ring gear vs. the way you have yours?
    Bandit,

    Those are old photos. At that time, I was trying to use a starter/generator on the front pull rope pulley. It didn't work out very well, as others can attest to.

    Chuck Rackley's design has the starter on the reduction side, and I understand that it works great. If I was starting over, I'd buy one of his reductions, with the starter. But I was too far along when he came out with that. I've got a Harley ring gear (same one as Chuck's) mounted to the front pulley, with the starter out front. (I'm also using the same starter as Chuck's design) That won't work for everyone, because of clearance issues. Only reason it works for me is my low side by side seating, and even then, it barely fits.

    I'd suggest going with Chuck's design.

    Duane
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Duane Scarborough View Post
    Bandit,

    Those are old photos. At that time, I was trying to use a starter/generator on the front pull rope pulley. It didn't work out very well, as others can attest to.

    Chuck Rackley's design has the starter on the reduction side, and I understand that it works great. If I was starting over, I'd buy one of his reductions, with the starter. But I was too far along when he came out with that. I've got a Harley ring gear (same one as Chuck's) mounted to the front pulley, with the starter out front. (I'm also using the same starter as Chuck's design) That won't work for everyone, because of clearance issues. Only reason it works for me is my low side by side seating, and even then, it barely fits.

    I'd suggest going with Chuck's design.

    Duane
    I'd love to use chucks reduction but 1300, ouch! That's gonna push my deadline. You may beat me Duane.

  9. #9
    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Like Duane said, build your cage a bit higher than it need to be. I'm not sure what the offset is but I'm sure 5" would be plenty. I have been very happy with my direct drive 14' ft boat. It's done everything I've asked it to do. If you get two hefty people in it, it slows down to around 23-23mph but other than a magneto failure and a plug heli coil blowing out I have had no problem with mine in 3 seasons and I run my boat a lot. I've done some work on it, replaced a head, they are very easy to work on.

    A reduction drive will gain you a few mph and some load capacity. I have been considering it because I need start to hauling building materials out to camp to rebuild after the last flood. If it's a question of funds, build it direct drive and get on the water. Save your cash and get Chucks reduction later, meanwhile you'll have some fun and get use to your boat.
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