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Thread: 084 starter/generator wiring

  1. #1

    084 starter/generator wiring

    Does anyone know how to wire up one of the golf cart starters I have tried two that should be good with no luck. even took one apart and checked it. If i'm not mistaken these dudes will crank in both directions; which brings up another question, can we wire them up some way to use all the windings in one direction? the gen/starters have three fields DF,D1 & D2. And they also have the brushes marked A1 & A2, which are opposite sides. Now; none of the brushes are grounded internally and i think one of the fields will have to go to one of the armature studs I'm sure someone has been here and laughing at me, but at this point i don't give a cr.. i just want a starter that works. Yea sort of but da.. confused.

    Thanks in advance, Jim

  2. #2
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Re: 084 STARTER ALTERNATIVE

    Airhead,

    I'm going to try to explain it as I understand it, from past experience with old timey starters and generators, and from recent research on the internet about combined starter/generators. I've also ran this by a local old-timer rebuilder who's dealt with starters, generators, alternators, and combined starter/generators. He thought it sounded right.

    Keep in mind that I have NOT done this yet on my starter/generator. I'm posting it here as much to help myself make sure I've got it right as to help you. Anyone who's got better info is welcome to set me straight.

    How you need to wire it depends on the particular starter/generator that you have. There are generally 2 styles of starter/generators. 2 terminal (they also have a case ground which I'm not counting), and 5 terminal.

    The 2 terminal units will only operate in one direction, depending on how it's wired internally. It may be able to be re-wired internally to give you the correct rotation.

    But you were asking about a 5 terminal unit.

    The 5 terminal units can be externally wired to operate in EITHER direction. They do not have a case ground.

    On a 5 terminal unit, the terminals are:

    A1, and A2, which are the armature terminals. These are the ones that connected internally through the brushes to the armature.

    D1, and D2, which are the main field terminals. These are connected internally to the main field coils.

    Forget about terminal DF for a moment... do not connect it to anything yet. Also, do NOT have a belt connected between the starter/generator and the engine for this test. (you would not want to spin the engine backwards)

    1. Connect the Positive battery terminal to the input side of the starter solenoid, This will be a separate starter solenoid. Back in the old years Fords had them, but they're also used in other applications. It's not part of the starter/generator.

    2. Connect A1 to the output side of the solenioid,

    3. Connect A2 to D1,

    4. Connect D2 to the Negative battery terminal.

    Now you need to test the rotation direction. Energize the starter solenoid for a moment, and observe the direction of rotation. Try it again a couple of times, to make sure you've got the direction it was turning figured out right.

    If it's turning the correct direction for what you need, you have got a starter wired properly. At this point, it will NOT charge, but will give you all the torque that unit can as a starter, in the correct direction.

    If it's turning the WRONG direction, you need to swap the main field coil connections. (Steps 3 and 4.)

    3. Connect A2 to D2,

    4. Connect D1 to the Negative battery terminal.

    Now you need to re-test the rotation direction. Energized the starter solenoid for a moment, and observe the direction of rotation. Try it again a couple of times, to make sure you've got the direction it was turning figured out right.

    If it's turning the correct direction for what you need, you have got a starter wired properly.

    At this point, it still will NOT charge, but will give you all the torque that unit can as a starter, but in the opposite direction.

    You should now have a STARTER.

    Oh, you also want a generator?

    That's where terminal DF comes into play.

    You need to have the correct voltage regulator for it to work properly.

    Assuming that you DO have the correct voltage regulator, it should have 3 or 4 terminals.

    FIELD which should be connected to the DF terminal of the Starter/generator.

    BAT which should be connected to the Positive terminal of the battery. If you are going to use an ammeter, it would be connected in series in the wire. It should read negative when not charging, and positive when charging.

    LOAD You may not have or may not even use this terminal. It's intended for "external loads", max 6 Amps. (I really don't know what it's for.)

    ARM which should be connected to A1 of the starter/generator.

    You probably should use at least 14 AWG wire for the charging connections, and 1 AWG for the battery/starter conections.

    Hope this helps you Airhead.

    Anyone else, please set me straight if I've told him wrong. You will not hurt my feelings.

    Thanks,

    Duane

    P.S. Papee, maybe this also needs to be put into a new post in "wiring". I'm not trying to me a smart-a$$, it's just that I realized that it may help people more that way.
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

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  3. #3

    Re: 084 STARTER ALTERNATIVE

    Great info Duane, The only problem is, this is the way i wired it already. Now i was using jumpers and may not of had a good connection. I will try this again with good conections. The way this thing is designed; to run in both directions, makes it kinda confusing but what you explained is the only way i see it working. I guess the golf cart has something to switch the voltage to crank the motor in the other direction I will get back to you on this and let you know the outcome. I agree about posting this in the wiring 150%

    Later

  4. #4
    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Re: 084 STARTER ALTERNATIVE

    I know some of the older golf carts shut down then ran the starter and engine backwards when in reverse.
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  5. #5

    Re: 084 STARTER ALTERNATIVE

    Duane, YOU DA MAN The correct wiring for my bosch is A1 to pos ( solenoid ) A2 to F2 & F1 to ground. It will also work ( in this same direction ) F2 to ground, A2 to pos, A1 to F1. It seemed to have more torque doing it the way you said. Now i can build brackets. Now a word of advice; before you start checking yours on the bench, take time to make sure your jump box is charged How mine got that dead is unknown. And Papee, i think the newer carts work that way also. And now for a war story. The title is how i learned a 2 stroke engine doesn't care which way it runs. Many moons ago when i was a motor sargeant, i had a young lad flag my jeep down on the side af the road with two 2 1/2 ton trucks. # 1 truck wasn't charging so the # 2 truck ( using field expedient method # 3725188-2 ) had pushed off # 1. The only problem was # 1 truck was in reverse. I kinda thought there was something wrong when the exhaust stack sucked my hand to it. Cleaned the air filter good.

    Now Papee if you trust us you can post the wiring if you want. May save someone a lot of trouble. Jim

  6. #6
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Re: 084 STARTER ALTERNATIVE

    Airhead,

    Glad that it worked out for you. I haven't started on my starter/generator brackets yet. Please post pictures when you get your's done. I've got an idea of how I want to do it, but would like to see other ideas.

    Papee,

    Please put this in another thread. I've hijacked Buster's thread.

    Thanks,

    Duane
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

  7. #7
    Administrator Papee's Avatar
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    Re: 084 starter/generator wiring

    Moved, I've been searching for a good wiring diagram but haven't had much time. I'll see if I can find something to post here for the different club car starters.
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  8. #8
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Re: 084 starter/generator wiring

    Airhead,

    I had some time on my hands today, and finally got around to starting on my S/G brackets. I got the upper bracket made. I've had the idea in my head for a long time, but just hadn't got to it.

    Now I need to install it, so that I can get measurements to make the lower bracket.

    Hopefully the weather will be decent this weekend so I can do that.

    I'll post photos then.

    Thanks,

    Duane
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

  9. #9
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Re: 084 starter/generator wiring

    Well, the weather was NICE today in eastern North Carolina.

    So, what'd I do? I went on a shopping trip with Pam. It was almost dark when we got home.

    Maybe tomorrow....

    Thanks,

    Duane
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

  10. #10
    KWAZY old Southerner... Duane Scarborough's Avatar
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    Re: 084 starter/generator wiring

    I finally got around to installing my upper S/G bracket today.



    I've still got to fab up the lower bracket/adjuster. And I've got to locate a full width belt. The belt in the photo is a 4V belt, and I intend to use a 6V belt. But my local parts stores didn't have a 6V in the right length.

    I'm slow, but I'm making progress.

    Duane
    A KWAZY old Southerner... and darn PROUD of it.

    Airboat Pros MiniPro 116 / Frog Spit
    SS rigging - with side by side seating
    Teledyne 4A084-4 engine
    Solex H30/31 Carb
    Arrow Prop 1.73:1 reduction
    67" Whirlwind 2 blade Mini Prop

    under construction

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