084 STARTER ALTERNATIVE

[Duane Scarborough]

Wildfowl / Mike,

I'm 55 years old, and have had long hair in a pony tail for about 35 of those years. Its considerable shorter and thinner now though.... Must be something to do with AGE.

You said:

"Seriousley....If you go ring-gear or belt-drive...PLEASE>>> PUT A COVER ON IT...!!!!!! "

With the alternater end of the engine just a few inches behind my head, I wouldn't even consider NOT having a guard of some kind.

Good advice though. Some people wouldn't think about it. I'd hate to hear of a tragic accident where someone's boa got caught in the alternator.

Thanks,

Duane

[Duane Scarborough]

Duane,

Are you really gonna let a little thing like that scare ya?

Well, What the heck was I thinking anyway HUH???

OK, believe it or not, I'm not quite ready to give up on this idea just yet! I have one slight modification I had mentioned before, that I just haven't gotten around to yet I am quite sure it will prevent the problems you fear, at least I am willing to trust it!

You know those rope slots in the alternator pulley? Well I have been meaning to drill holes in the flywheel/flex plate, and install 3/8" bolts and nuts in them. After reading your post, I may even safety wire them! That pulley was designed to turn the engine with one of those slots at a time, this way both will share the torque of starting. They will also assure that everything stays together a lot better.

I know I probably should have done that up front, but I had not thought out the possible problems to that extent. Somehow the inheirent danger present with an airboat itself, an engine winding to it's Max RPM's, and a 60" three blade propellor spinning just behind me, tend to make an unlikely errant starter ring gear pale by comparison.


Dave

Yeah Buster, it REALLY does scare me. The way I'm building my boat, that alternator/rope pulley will be just a few inches behind, and about level with my head. There seems to be something about the back of my head that I'd like to keep for a while longer.... Maybe it's just me.

I do like the effort and imagination that you've put into this project. But I'm going to be a little more conservation.

When someone who's been playing with these engines in airplanes for 20+ years starts telling me about the total engine failures that he knows of from hanging things on the alternator end of the engine, it DOES get my attention.

Just be careful....

Duane

[buster]

Duane,

It got my attention too, that's why I realize that 2-bolt mod and the guard I had been thinking about are necessary, not just a good idea! Do you really think anyone would wear a Boa on an airboat???...I mean other than Jessie Ventura?

Maybe I could go one step further, and design a longer center bolt that would also go through the flex plate/ring gear assembly. That would certainly hold everything in place and ensure longivity!

Keep in mind, this is just a build, not a finished product. Modifications will be made as they are needed.

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

I do understand that it's a work in progress. You seem to be a very resourceful guy. I'm betting you'll figure something out.

Thanks,

Duane

[Duane Scarborough]

Wildfowl,

Are they hiring at Big Island Engineering? I'm quite sure I'd fit right in! I have references. I have been told I am exceptionally talanted with bailing wire and duck tape

By the way, If you read my post on April 13, '09, I stated that I intend to instal a guard over the ring gear. I think the drag racers would call that a scattershield! Please note, I am not finished with it, it is a work in progress! Just as an observation, except for prop guards, I have not noticed many carmotor airboats with protection of any kind over the pulleys and belts on the front of the engine

I do not know Duanes friend Les. I'm sure he is a great guy, but he is a airplane guy. My experience with them is that they tend to analyze everything to death, and usually come up with the WORST CASE SENARIO, most often, it will never happen.

If I were a pilot, I probably would be the same way,.....Na,.. I doubt it! If a guy wants to avoid all situations that may be dangerous, he would have to stay in bed... then pray that a metorite didn't crash through the roof.

Anyway, I usually don't abandon a project because a few problems become obvious. There usually are ways to overcome just about any flaw. If all else fail, use more duck tape

Hang in there,
Dave

You're right there Buster. Les is an airplane guy, and they do tend to "analyze everything to death". For some good reasons. If they have an in flight engine failure, it usually does not turn out too good.

For us, an engine failure hopefully just means its a bad day.

I've gotten to be a scardy cat, and am now being more careful.

There was a time when I'd hop on the Harley for a 600+ mile trip, determined to make it in 8 hours. And I did it a few times.

I'm past that now.

Thanks,

Duane

[buster]

Well ya,
I guess most of us were young , and "TEN FEET TALL AND BULLETPROOF" ounce! Those days are mostly in my rear view mirror now also.

What strikes me a little strange is, those experimental aircraft folks are very concerned about safety, and I can understand that. However they climb into basically a home made contraption and head for one thousand feet altidude or more, with an engine designed to run a generator, welder, snowmobile, or almost anything except an airplane! Even if everything is in perfect condition, it certainly doesn't seem all that safe to me. JMHO

Dave

[buster]

Today I was applying the "STEALTH" paint to my engine, I decided to check out that small key way on the end of the crank, that would supposedly cause the alternator to fly apart. Well, I could not remember seeing one. I was correct, my engine has no key way, just a tapered shaft with the nut holding it from turning.

So, if the engine did kickback, I hardly think anything would likely happen, other than the four bolts may shear off, letting the flexplate separate. I had intended to install two bolts at the rope pulley slots, and this is the time to do it. I am confident it will take care of the feared problem, especially with the guard I intend to build later.

Dave

[Wildfowl]

Wildfowl,

Are they hiring at Big Island Engineering? I'm quite sure I'd fit right in! I have references. I have been told I am exceptionally talanted with bailing wire and duck tape

Hang in there,
Dave

As soon as things pick up we may just be looking for talent such as yourself. Bailing wire and duck tape are great strengths. We don't check references though... a waste of time. We use altitude tests like giving you a can of coffee, some eggs, some matches, a bucket of watter, a screwdriver, hammer, and a stick welder. Than we ask you to make breakfast using the above and any other available stuff in the yard including the old straw matress and bank sticks. In your case we would not let you use bailing wire or duck tape...that would be too easy.

Hey...Uh...didn't mean to ruffle any feathers with the "guard" comment. I should stay away from using CAPS. Did not intend to bark...just a friendly concern for safety. I do know first hand of accidents and they suck! I know there are a ton of boats out there without guards and imho they are accidents waiting to happen.

Nice additions to your assembly Buster...thanks for sharing!

[Duane Scarborough]

Wildfowl,

I don't think that you've ruffled any feathers. At least none of mine.

Anything that we do with an Air Boat is risky, so we just need to be carefull, and think things through. Guards over moving parts are just common sense.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking for a Darwin award.

There are some people (Not many, thankfully) that run open, uncaged props. Are they out of thier minds?

Buster has thought through the risks with his starter design, and is taking steps to reduce them. I admit that I may be playing Chicken Little here, but I'm going to be play on the side of being overly cautious.

Thanks,

Duane

[buster]

Mike, Your are entirely right about the much needed guards. No offense taken.

However you hit a sore spot about making breakfast though. I couldn't cook anything with a fully stocked, modern kitchen, let alone the items you mentioned When I make breakfast, we eat wheaties. That's the extent of my cooking abilities.

I guess about the best I could do, is to use the welder to build a flat top wood stove for someone else to cook it with, Or... let me call for take out Pizza (May as well, It'll be suppertime when I get the stove done anyway!!!)

Dave

[Wildfowl]

I guess about the best I could do, is to use the welder to build a flat top wood stove for someone else to cook it with, Or... let me call for take out Pizza

Dave

Congratulations Dave, very nice ....nobody said you cant use the phone and you "know" what the welder is for It's that kind of no-nonsence forward thinking talent we are looking for.

It's the ones that look around and say something like "I think I have it figured out but whats the welder for" that dont do so good.

Keep on cranking....

[buster]

Mike,

You just made me realize something. I don't think I have a single relative that can weld, or feel comfortable with a wrench. Yet most of my friends can weld and wrench. Maybe that's why they have turned out to be my friends.

I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but I think guys like us have a bit more talent than average. Actually it seems to me life would get awfully boring if we couldn't do some of the stuff what we do JMO

Dave

[buster]

To whom it may concern,

I had intended to post the latest improvements to my Starter project last weekend. I did not have the exact metal I wanted to use to fab the guard, or the air scoop. Then my buddy Ron showed up and volunteered to make what I wanted, at work on his lunch break. How could I refuse?

Anyway I picked up a piece of sheet metal for the scoop, and I will attempt to make up something that will redirect air to the starter/cylinder location. Hopefully I will have time to do it and post pic's in a few days.

Dave

[chuckitt]

We have a video showing the 4 pole club car starter/generater cranking the 084. I sent it to Papee so he could load it. You will see the rope pull hub has been modified to a 7 inch dia. hub for the belt to run on. OK Papee, do your tricks.
Thanks, Chuck

[Duane Scarborough]

For those who are following this, I replied to Airhead's question, on his thread. Here is a link.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=452&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=70

Thanks,

Duane

[buster]

I hope this post will put everybody's mind at ease about this dangerous starter project. [attachment=1:3kq0jbq4]084 STARTER PROJECT 021.jpg[/attachment:3kq0jbq4]


The bolts are installed into the rope pull slots, and the guard is bolted in place, nobody is gonna get hurt

Dave

Have a happy fourth of July everybody

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

I really do wish you lived close by. Then I could either shake your hand, or kick you in the butt, depending on what's appropriate at the time.

That's looking good, but I'm still going to chase the starter/generator idea for a while longer.

Duane

BTW, the flags are a nice touch.

[buster]

Duane,

Why in the world would you want to kick a nice guy like me anyway :P :P

As far as the S/G idea, I guess some people are just a bear for punishment

As soon as I get mine wired, and the prop installed, I guess I'll find out if the starter idea was a good one or not

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

Hey, we can all use a kick in the butt from time to time.

I'm looking forward to seeing how your alternative works out.

Duane

[buster]

It shouldn't take more than a few hours, but I am catching up on a lot of honey-don't things that I should have gotten done months ago.

I will try to sneak in some time on it the next few days. I'd like to make up the air scoop for the starter/cylinder area too. Then the headers, the prop, and away we go

Dave