Rebuilding an aircat!

[buster]

After spending about six hours saturday, this is as far as I got on the prop cage wire. I'm glad I decided to do it the way Chuck suggested, but it sure is time consuming. It'll look a lot better than wire fence would when it's done i'm sure.
Duane, If you decide to do yours this way, I think I would see if you can borrow or rent a wire feed. I have to agree with you that doing tacks, or a zillion small welds like this would take a lot longer without one
Just the smallest welder you can get your hands on should be big enough for this job. You should only need it a couple days.
Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Dave,

That's looking good !

I've already decided to buy that MillerMatic 140 from the local National Welders Supply. I can use it for other things anyway. I've been wanting one for a while anyway. I started to buy it last week but decided to wait until after my trip to FL to pick up the hull. And I'll need it much longer than a couple of days. (I know how slow I am.)

I agree with you about the way you're doing the cage wire. It looks a lot better than fence wire would. Is that 1/8" copper coated filler rod? It looks a little larger in the photos.

Thanks,

Duane

[buster]

It's 1/8" copper coated gas welding rod all right. It cost about $8.25 a pound (About eight sticks.) The Stainless was about $18.50 for about the same. I bought eight pounds, I
will probably run out before I finish!
Duane, are you going to run Frog Spit or Quik Slick on your boat? I wanted to get some Quick Slick for mine, but the guy that makes it is not liscensed to ship it, so I can't get it back from Lakeland, Fl. It is said to have a lot less friction than Frog Spit. If you decide to use that, you should pick it up when you get your hull! Just a thought, I should ask Chuck if he is a Quick Slick dealer. If so, maybe he could ship me some.
Dave

P.S. Duane, Go back to SA and read about four posts past yours. That boat he sunk is the same model as mine was!

[Duane Scarborough]

No, I'm not planning on using either Frog Spit or Quik Slick for now. I may decide that I need it later.

Duane

I'll go to SA and read about the sunk boat now.

[buster]

You do realize that you will have to completely dismantle the boat, then turn the hull upside down after it is all painted don't you? That is why I want my slick bottom done before I even put mine together, or paint it! Just a thought
Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Good point. Even though I'm "planning" to build my rigging so it's easy to take off, now would be the time to do it, while it's still a bare hull.

I've not found anything that tells how to apply it, but here is what I understand from the little I've read. Tell me if this sounds right:

1. It's only needed on the very bottom of the hull. Maybe up to the waterline.
2. It's a 2 part epoxy type mix.
3. It doesn't require any special equipment or skills to apply.
4. It can be roller applied after prepping and masking the area I want covered.

I may try to pick up some frog spit while I'm down there after all.

(or maybe try to get Chuck to do it for me sometime next week if it's something I can't do myself)

Thanks,

Duane

Oh yeah, the sunk boat in the side be side seating thread makes me think again about that idea. I still want my seating down low though.

[buster]

If you do want to get genuine "QUICK SLICK", Call Brian (863) 581-9710, He is in Lakeland, Florida, fifty some miles south of Lake Panosoffkee. I wish I could figure a way to get some myself. It's about ninety bucks a gallon, I figure I could get by with two,
And, as far as I know, everything you said about application is correct. I never have done it yet, however Brian told me to call when i'm applying it, and he would talk me through any problems!
Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Dave,

I know this may sound really stupid, because I haven't really been paying much attention to slick coatings. I was figuring that'd be something I'd try after I finally get the boat running. You've made me rethink that idea.

What's the difference between frog spit and quick slick? I thought that they were pretty much the same thing, but made by different people.

Do you really think it'll take 2 gallons for your hull? I have no idea how far it'll spread. (It's not latex paint after all.)

Maybe I need to be googling quick slick instead of frog spit.

Did you get to work on your cage wire today? I didn't do anything boat related except push the engine from one corner of the shop to another. Been busy trying to catch up on the Honey Dew list so I don't catch a lot of crap for my road trip next weekend....

I'm looking forward to the trip because I'll be able to pick up my hull and trailer, pick Chuck's brain, and maybe meet Ron Paxson (and see his boat up close). But I am not looking forward to the long drive there and back.

Maybe I will give Brian a call after Chuck gets back from the show and I've asked him about it.

I'm not 100% sure that I need either. I'm not planning to try running dry ground. But who knows, I may get a wild hair one day, and I'd hate to rip up the hull... Do those guys really cross asphault roads?

And I wonder what's the problem with shipping quick slick? Isn't it basicly epoxy paint? Don't they ship that every day?

Duane

Oh, I did pick up a couple of cheap lawn mower mufflers, so I can run the engine when I feel like it, without the neighbors getting P.O.'d at me.

[buster]

Duane,

I worked on my prop gage today, but I came up about six rods short. I should get the welding done tomorrow after I go get another pound

I figured an Airboat has the reputation af being "Water Optional", so I want it to be able to do that, even If I seldom run dry. I wouldn't want to have to explain to anyone why Mine can't do it!

Frog Spit has been used for many years I guess, but Quick Slick, not so long. I just have heard guys rave about the difference when they switched over to it. Check out SA Forum for the topic Frog Spit for one. and I have seen it mentioned a number of places. I just thought as long as i was going to get it anyway, I would try it out if I could. And yes, I've seen U-tube videos of Airboats crossing blacktop roads, and a lot of other stuff too. I just guessed that two gallons would be needed, I guess it depends how thick you spread it. I'm pertty good at that, come to think of it

As far as shipping goes, I guess they require a Haz-Mat liscense for it, I don't know what the problem components are. I just thought of something. I wonder if UPS or some shipper could pick it up and pack it, then ship it. I don't know if any carrier offers that service. Maybe I'll check it out tomorrow.

When I start up my 084, the ports will be wide open. I have four neighbors that make more noise at times, than I could ever make with one single Airboat Three of them spend a lot of weekends target shooting in their back yards, one wakes us up almost every morning in the summer, going to work on his big Victory bike, and one often wakes us up about 1:30AM when he unloads his race car after returning from the track. Sure glad the neighbors don't live any closer

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Dave,

I've got a '97 Harley 1200 Sportster with self modified "M" pipes. Trust me, the 4A084 with open headers is much LOUDER than that.

After balancing the checkbook this afternoon, the only spit I can afford for now may be coming from my own mouth. Sad, but true.

But it'll get better....

At least I paid Chuck up front for my hull and trailer.... Gee, I wonder if that's what busted the bank? Nah, couldn't have been that.

I may have to hitch-hike to FL next weekend to pick it up, but it's paid for.

Duane

[buster]

You might check with Greyhound. Maybe they have a bus with a trailor hitch you can ride home

Sure glad I sold my big boat or I would be in the same situation

Dave

[chuckitt]

Both frog spit and quick slick are resin based products and have silicones added to make it slick. They are no harder than gelcoat. I have never found a fair comparison on how long it last. The lighter the boat, the longer it will last. Running on pavement will wear it off real fast. I used to make it myself when i worked at Hoffmann airboats. We even added baby powder to it. If you apply it in damp or humid weather, it want be as slick. Too damp and you may have to scrap it off and start over. I don't put one as being any better than the other. One gallon will do a 13 ft hull.
Thanks, Chuck

[buster]

Chuck.
Thanks for the info about frog spit. I was just guessing without any actual experience. Glad to know the real facts.

Did you ever get ahold of the guy about the starter-generator number? I am about to the point that I would really like to start my engine before I go any further.

I have been looking at them on ebay, and the main difference seems to be the amps., some are 15, and some are 25. I hate to just buy a 25 amp unit and hope it works, but there seems to be a shortage of accurate info about them out there! The one that Duane's friend recommended is only 15 amps, so I am unsure about it also!

I finished the prop cage today, and it is prepped, and I will paint it, take a pic', and post it first thing tomorrow.

Thanks,
Dave

[chuckitt]

I ask Henry to check the starter for a # and he said he would. He purchased Bills mini. Maybe he will let me know tomorrow.
Thanks, Chuck

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

If I understand correctly, the amp rating is the generator's charging current, NOT the starter's starting current. From what I've been able to find, these things have a common armature, but 2 or 4 sets of field coils.

They are built in the same style housing as a '50s generator. As I understand, those with the higher charging rate have much lower starting torque. (You can only put so many sardines in a can).

I'm planning to leave the original permanent magnet alternator on my engine when I strip it down. I may not need to use it, and if so, I can strip it off later. The original alternator was intended for 24V service, but with the right rectifier/regulator will work fine at 12V.

Because I'm planning to keep the alternator in place, I may just use the starter/generator ONLY as a starter. I won't know until I've had a chance to play with it some.

If you just want to start it up, it CAN be rope started. I've ran mine several times, with a rope start. It does take a HEALTHY pull, so you may want to enlist help, but it works fine.

I got some wise advice from someone on the Yahoo A084Experimentors group, and mine started the first time I tried it on the 2nd pull. Since then, its started on the first pull. Let me know if you want more info...

Thanks,

Duane

P.S.
I'm looking forward to seeing what your finished cage looks like. BTW, I PM'd you about how I rope started mine....

[Wildfowl]

Both frog spit and quick slick are resin based products and have silicones added to make it slick. They are no harder than gelcoat. I have never found a fair comparison on how long it last. The lighter the boat, the longer it will last. l.
Thanks, Chuck

What a breath of fresh air. I have to hand it to you Chuck…you’re a straight shooter. Looking forward to meeting you sometime.

I spent a dozen years as a corrosion guru for the Sherwin-Williams paint company. Bridge and golf ball paints and the like. Chuck nailed it.

There are coefficients of friction, and drag. Add into that hardness and brittleness testing…ouch. Sure, I bent some of these over a mandrel.

Do either of these coatings make a difference on the bottom of an Airboat? Sure they do! It is another level of protection and in my "professional" opinion are what is called a sacrificial coating. It is a wear layer that keeps your boat from wearing. Oh yeah...they are slick too!

I “can’t” honestly say there are any more performance enhancements from adding baby powder than you can get from just urinating in the can.

Thanks Chuck for being right on point…those coatings do help but are not a goose that lays golden eggs. They do, sure as heck, help protect your investment and I think are a great test to see if you need polymer. If you run through these coatings or your gel coat you should consider a sheet of polymer.

Thank you Chuck!

[buster]

Ditto what Wildfowl said about Chuck

Well the prop cage is done, and I reckon it didn't turn out too bad If I ever do another I will try to pick up a portable spot welder though! I been thinking it would sure have a lot of advantages on this job over a wirefeed!
Those advantrages would be:
Faster
Every weld exactly the same
No weld spatter to clean up later
Faster
No whiskers to grind off
Eye protection not required
Did I mention faster?

Anyway, I guess the next step is to tip the hull over and see what it needs. It has a lot of years under it's belt, and I can't expect not to have a few things to deal with before painting.

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

That's looking nice ! I know that it was a lot of work, but sure looks better than some of the fence wire jobs I've seen. I've seen some fence wire cages that looked good, but I've also seen some that look like crap.

Duane

[buster]

Just one more trial assembly to check header and exhaust routing clearance. Next it comes apart and gets turned upside down.

One other thing, before I go much farther, I need some suggestions on what to do with the trim oround the outside edge. The picture shows some fiberglass damage on the corner, which I can fix, but the aluminum strip is not is the best condition. I would like to replace it with something else, but I don't know what else is available. I will need close to thirty feet. Since the aluminum is riveted on, now is the time to change it before painting. Any ideas???

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

I "think" that I know what you are looking for. It's an extruded aluminum rail with a T slot for a rounded plastic rub strip insert. The problem is that I don't know what it's called. The best that I can come up with now is "rub rail".

My Daddy's Bonito had this back in 1969. I remember because I had to replace some of it. ( one whole side) And I've seen it on lot's of boats since then, but not given it much thought. I've tried not to get so intimate with docks.

I'll look, but in the meantime, try googling "rub rail". Or try checking with a local boat dealer. They'll at least know what to call it.

Duane