Rebuilding an aircat!

[buster]

Chuck, I did get my starter-generater off of a golf cart, and from the outside, and looking at the 4 brushes, it looks like a four pole. My buddy that retired from Ownan, is going to take it apart tomorrow and see if it checks out. He can't find any dead wires on the outside though. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

I am wondering if some four pole units are more powerful that others? Could anyone get me a part no. from a Start-Gen that is known to work for a 0-84?

I understand that the rope pulley will need to be trued to drive the generater, but to try the starter out It won't be a problem, at least not until it starts!

Thanks,
Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Thanks Chuck. I know you've got to be as busy as a one legged man in a dance contest.

Duane

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster sent me a PM which convinced me on my MIG vs braze choice:

Here is part of my reply. I thought I'd share it for others benefit.

"Thanks for the response about brazing vs MIG. I guess I'll bite the bullet and go with MIG. My local National Welding dealer has a "deal" going on now on a MillerMatic 140. (Cheaper than Ebay prices - even counting the free shipping offers). I've been wanting one for a while now anyway. If I include it in my "tools" budget instead of my "boat" budget, it won't add anything to the cost of the boat. But it'll blow my "tools" budget to hell and back.

You've helped me make up my mind on that. I'm going to try to go pick one up tomorrow. If I don't like it, it's all your fault.

Thanks also for the "cope/notch/fishmouth" advice. I'll pick up a couple sticks at Lowes and experiment with both the welder and the jig/holesaw/drillpress idea this weekend."

Duane

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster.

I ran across a local guy on the Yahoo A084Experimentors group that helped me out a lot with "how to start it up right" advice for my engine. He builds these engines up for experimental aircraft, and has a couple of them on his own airboats. He also builds/sells EFI for these engines. He is a 4A084 expert.

With his advice, my new/old (built in 1990 but been in a crate since then)engine started on the 2nd pull of the rope.

He's also given me some advice on starters. And advice on how to deal with the rope pulley, and what belt to use, etc. But he never told me exactly what starter to use. I've just sent him an email with "our" questions.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Later,

I'm going to bed now.

Duane

[chuckitt]

Hey Duane, Go to bed. You want ever finish your boat because you are on the computer too much. Just kidding. Thanks for bringing all the questions out, It helps everyone solve their projects. You should ask your friend to join this site, The one that knows the 084's. To cope the emt, I use a 1/2 in dia. die grinder burr. the one with cross hatch teeth. it cuts it real fast. Mine was about $ 40.00 at Grainger. It will last a long time.
Thanks, Chuck

[buster]

I think I'll ask this question again since no one responded before
Can anyone give me a part number off of a Starter-Generator that is actually working to start a 084 engine
I have a four pole unit off of a golf cart, with a two inch pulley, that does not do the job. I believe some four pole starter-generators are more powerful than others, so I need a part no. to begin my search

Thanks, Dave

[chuckitt]

I will try to call Bill tomorrow and see if he can give me the part # of his. It is the only one I seen spin it over real good. I just been too busy the last few days to remember to call him. I will leave his file on my desk to remind me.
Thanks, Chuck
OH, we also used a 1000 amp battery.

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

I got an answer from the "local guy on the Yahoo A084Experimentors group" friend that I refered to.

He recommends this starter/generator:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0040996260

He also mentioned that he uses a garden tractor battery, and says it spins good. They're concerned about weight even more than we are.

I've sent a request to the vendor for more info, and described the application. I'll let you know what I find out.

Chuck,

At your suggestion, I also invited him to join this forum. Haven't got a reply to that yet. I know he's more into experimental aircraft than airboats, even though he has a couple. I also know that he is very involved with the Yahoo A084Experimentors group. It wouldn't surprise me if his response is to invite those of you that are interested to join them. I'll let you know.

Thanks,

Duane

[buster]

Thanks to both of you. Maybe I will get this rig started yet

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster, and Chuck,

I did NOT go buy that welder today, because both the "tools" and "boat" budgets are already about busted.

The welder will have to be put on hold for a little while. But I'll have plenty of work to do in the meantime.

I've waited so long to get started on this (about 38 years) that another couple of months won't be a problem.

Duane

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

No problem, your project is several months ahead of mine. I have a vested interest in seeing yours work out nicely. I figure that any little help I can provide will be rewarded many times over by learning from you and your experiences.

I do wonder about how the 4A084 will run without a flywheel, or prop. (The prop would act like a huge flywheel.) Starting/running one without either makes me wonder what would happen. I'm guessing that it would not run well.

Maybe Chuck will chime in on this.

Duane

Thanks to both of you. Maybe I will get this rig started yet

Dave

[buster]

Duane, I didn't think I tried to talk you into the MIG. I thought you could gas weld the engine stand, and braze the rest. I only used mine because I already owned it, leftover from my closed business.
Anyway, I have been waiting to do this project for about sixty of my seventy years. What's your rush?
BTW, I think I'll wait to see what part number Chuck comes up with before I spend the money for the starter.
I just want to start mine to see if it needs to be rebuilt or anything. I bought it used as "Unserviceable" gov't surplus. I know it will not run very good without a flywheel or prop.
Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

I know you didn't try to talk me into it, and didn't intend to imply that. You just provided some insight that I needed to finish talking myself into it. My "if I don't like it, it's your fault" comment was meant in jest. I really hope that your took it the way I intended.

Wow, you have waited a long time. And I was thinking that I held some kind of record. You've got me beat there for sure.

I haven't got a reply from the vendor yet about the starter/generator. I'll let you know when I do. I'm also looking forward to seeing what Chuck comes up with. But I know that he's very busy right now.

Thanks,

Duane

[buster]

I figured I could get the prop cage finished today, but I ran out of tubing with just the top few braces left. I'll go get more tomorrow. I need some chop saw blades and brazing rods anyway.
It looks like I'll have my hands full getting the wire over the top to look good! I will consider suggestions from anyone that has ever done it before....Chuck or Papee maybe

Ya Duane, I knew you were kiddin' about the welder being my fault. I figured it wouldn't Hold up in Court even if you weren't

Dave

[imported_Papee]

Putting the mesh on depends on the shape of your cage. I just started at a point where the wire laid the best and worked my way around. In some places I cut the wire first to fit at a brace the cut the other side just a bit longer so I could use some of the wire itself to wrap and connect the split I made to keep the shape. I also used zip ties around the braces and where wrapping the wire on itself was not possible. I started across the bottom. I also started with one piece that would cover the whole area then trimmed.

[buster]

Well that all seems to make sense Papee. I'll keep it all in mind, and I guess we will see how I did in a day or two
Thanks,
Dave

[chuckitt]

WE use 1/8 th inch ss rod and tack them on in a 4 inch pattern. Yes, we weld each wire. It looks better, flows more air, and don't break as easy due to vibration. Look in the gallery at Ron and Robins 084.
Thanks, Chuck

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

It looks like you're making some good progress. I look forward to seeing the end result.

Duane

[buster]

I think I am going to take Chucks suggestion to cover the prop cage with 1/8" wire, but after pricing stainless, I decided to go with 1/8" gas welding rods, as long as I am gonna paint it anyway! Should work almost as good.

Now I have 3/4 of a roll of wire fencing I won't be using! Hmmm... Maybe I should get some chickens

Dave

[Duane Scarborough]

Buster,

I don't know what the problem is. Yahoo has some quirks.

How abour trying this email address:

duane.scarborough@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Duane