Redrive Built In House..

Well, a couple of weeks ago I went to post some updates on my redrive build, and I found out that it had to be removed do to problems that the site had. Do to the resent hacks.
It was kind of fun to think about the progress that I had made. from not owning a lathe, and dreaming about making one vrs. purchasing one.
the truth be told. with the time involved and parts and pieces, it would be money in the bank to have purchased one..
but I have learned a lot, and it has been a fun and learning project.
2 years ago if anyone had asked me to take a 2" threaded stud bolt and make a shaft for my driven pulley, I would have said good luck. but I did that yesterday.. I have came a long way..still have a ways to go.
the design has been upgraded, changed and revised more than a few times.
and by the time it is over, I should have 2 different styles
1 with a brace only on the drive pulley, and the other with a full front plate.

so forgive me if I am jumping into the middle or tail end of this project. I may go back and fill in some of the blanks, but I didn't do to well at organizing the pictures at home with 2 different computers and picts, scattered all over the place...

So I had made a driven shaft, bearing holders for both the upper & lower front plate, but have been waiting on a friend with a mill to drill out the holes in the front plate. might happen yet...
but the driven shaft had a slight problem, that taper was 0004 out. not good, i have been thinking about what went wrong with that for the last couple of months.
finally I may have figured it out. I did not have my taper attachment plumb with the lathe bed. maybe in a few I will attempt it again.
in the mean time this last week, I turned out 4 shafts, with 2 different styles. it has been an learning and growing experience. threading can be so simple. but one careless moment. what should be the end, turns out to be the beginning of the next one...
the final one out of the stud bolt was some hard material. went through a few carbide inserts. and was doing the final threads 1-1/4 by 12 tpi. and the nut would start. so i ran a file over the top of the crown, then went to do a clean up pass with the lathe, and some how I had bumped something, and it was a 1/2 thread off....
so now the final product has a groove that a set screw will set in to lock it in place. no need for a lock nut.
I had the other style that was made out of a 1-1/4 shaft with a spacer to hold the pulley off of the back plate. and had put 1-14 threads on it. I really didn't like reducing the shaft for that thread size. so I found a 1-1/4-12 nut. and I am liking how it looks.
ps. I pick up an old band saw. replaced some parts. and it cuts real nice.

one of the things that I had been contemplating was what type of pulley tension style to use. after thinking about this for the last couple of years. I ended up turning out a 94mm / 3.75 x 2" deep, custom pulley, I will be using a bar that pivots to hold it to the back plate. It is a simple design, I kind of borrowed it from the link below
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com...p/551617-1.htm

It is looking nice, but I might change, and use a concentric lob on a shaft, I turned one out of a 1.5" blank, but was only getting about 3/8" of movement. might have to use a 2" dia. blank and see what that looks like
I will be using 2 bearings to keep things in line.

the next item on the list is to fab up a prop hub extension. where I will be mounting a bearing on the outside of the drive pulley. I need to extend the prop a little to clear it.
as you can see from one of the photos, where I have the bearing plates attached to the pulleys. I do need to extend the prop out, for clearance. the distance between the back plate and the bearing plate is 4 inches.
the designs are rather simple,
1 keep things concentric
2 4 inches in dia.
3 line up the bolt pattern. these will be 6 holes on a rotax 75 mm circle, 21/64 dia.
4 keep everything concentric.
5 mounting extrusions on both ends to mate up to the driven pulley, & center the prop on

one of the things that I am looking at. is the different diameters that different prop makers have on their props
the hub I purchased from Arrow Prop. a few years back, has a 1.5 dia. plug. this matches a few of the wooden props I have seen
I had milled out my warp drive plate to match that.
But my ultra prop has a 1" centering plug.
with these 2 sizes. I am thinking about making an removable insert to accommodate these 2 sizes.
with the rotation I should be okay using a right handed bolt to hold the insert in place..
"my cuyuna motor has the other rotation, and it uses a LEFT handed 1/2 -20 bolt to hold the hub adapter to the shaft."

It is kind of fun to see some of these things coming together. I wish my drafting friend was around to draw this up. but I have learned a few things, one is to put some measurements down on paper before starting any cuts, and think about it for a day or two.

I still do not know which prop I will be using, I may be using the warp drive 3 bladed prop. where I can adjust the pitch.
allegedly with the fuel injection update on the motor, I have read that I should expect about 20% more thrust.
where the ultra prop, I will need to figure out the pitch blocks, all this to keep the rpm in check
both of these props are still at 60 in. diameter.
I just don't know what all to expect...

so I spent a little time on the hub extension today, and it is starting to take shape, it seems that I will think about what and how I want it to look for a good while, then spend a few days to turn the project out. the biggest part of any project on the lathe, is to think through all the steps, that can be accomplished with out removing the piece. Like with this hub extension.
I centered the piece in the lathe, then faced off the front and the side up until I got close to the jaws. Then with the cap that came with the pulley, I drilled a hole to center it to the piece, where I would use it as an template to drill the 6 mounting holes. knowing how easy it is for the template to rotate while drilling all the holes. I drilled and tapped the first hole, put a 1/4-20 bolt in it. then went to the opposite side, & drilled and taped that hole also. then I felt confident in drilling the 4 remaining holes. I used a ss sleeve to center the drill bit, so the hole would be centered to the template hole, and also I didn't want to elongate my pulley cap. "don't know if and when I may need it again."
then it was off to the races. or removing the aluminum in the center, that took a little time. where after each pass I was cleaning up the chips. more than once they got rapped around the work piece, the tape helped a good bit to keep things from snagging on the chuck jaws.
from just the little that was removed, I was able to fill a bag full of tinsel. I think that took the most time was stopping the lathe and cleaning things up after every pass, if not it always gets exciting when a birds nest wraps around the work.

The Pulley came with 1/4-20 threaded holes. It had a warp drive 60" dia. prop mounted to it. and was originally on used on a Hirth 50hp motor.
looking at many of the Rotax hub extensions, they are all using an 8mm bolt. Which is just .2638" I am contemplating replacing the 1/4" bolts with 5/16 bolts which would be .3125.
I will be using 5/16 bolts to mount the prop to the hub. a question I have, about the prop side of the hub, I never see any of these holes threaded. would that be due to manufacturing, it would take just a little longer?
At the moment, I am in the mood to thread those holes, still put a lock nut on the bolt. I may need to put some anti-seez on the threads so they don't gall after some time.

All that is left is to turn the hub around, drill and tap 5/16's threaded holes. & make a coupled of plugs for centering the different props.
my thoughts are to use some 1.5 round stock, and use a 5/16th right hand threaded socket head cap screw to hold them in place. and have the base recessed about .25 into the center of the hub.

p.s. if anyone needs a bag a ready made tinsel for the holidays, let me know. my wife is refusing to let me decorate the tree with it..I had to throw 3 bags away today. there was some nice colors. blue, bronze, silver, burnt. " color & thickness is dependent on the speed and how big of cut I take."

well turning out a hub has been an learning experience, in hind site I should have ordered 2 blanks, the method that I used to drill the bolt holes, the first 12 holes turned out great, then I thought of putting another set of holes, ended up breaking off a tap. needless to say I don't know if I would have ever made it as a dentist.

but I will see about filling in the cavity with a little weld material, and I might be able to salvage it.
For some reason I made this a 4 in. extension, it gives me a little play room with the 2 props. the warp drive I have 2.25 clearance, and the ultraprop, I have almost 3 inches clearance, I really don't know how close I the prop next to the lower hub bearing... any ideas???
took a little time to get things lined up better, between the upper an lower pulleys, there is only a .003" difference between them.
there has been a few other things that I may end up changing. looking at the bolt landing next to the prop. I had left it at 1 inch thick, but now looking at the arrow prop hub, and the hubs from my cuyuna, they are 1/2" & 5/8" thick. The bolts work with a thinner landing, where a 1" landing doesn't work so well. at the moment i have turned it down to a .700" and after filling in the cavity thinking of leaving it 5/8" thick.

I also ended up taking most of the radius out of the inside of the extension, so I could get the bolt to set square to the extension. a lot of the pictures that I have seen on the extensions always had a inside radius, but with using a 75mm radius. it just was not happening,
here are also a few picts. with my hub extension, and the 2 other hubs that i have showing the thickness.
a lot of it is I am having fun just trying to see if I can actually make this happen, and I have a better idea now, on what to look out for on the next hub extension, but this will work for fit up and going forward..

took a little time and filled in the holes, went a lot simpler than I expected, with the mig gun, tig would have been a lot simpler & cleaner. But it cleaned up nice and there was no cavities, when I took another .100 off.
the landing on the prop side is .63 wide, & the pulley side is just under an inch. With a total length of just over 3.5 inches.
when the other blank comes in, it should go a lot easier, now that I have a little better idea on process of steps, and have a finished product.
I will be making a small tool to help keep the tap straight, so I don't have the problem of breaking one off again.

I am still playing with the hub extension. coming up with other ways to center and drill the mounting holes.. I don't have the right set up on the lather to drill these holes accurately, when it is not plumb with the tail stock. So I took in stock of what I have around, and came up with this design.
Where I had a Arrow Prop hub, and a 1" spacer, with the holes already drilled. all I needed to do was center this up with the hub. and with a 1.5 hole to center up on. Drilling on a drill press, looked like the better option.
A short taper was made to fit inside the arrow prop hub, and with a center plug to align everything. I bolted it together and it didn't turn out half that bad..
As you can see from the one picture. where I drilled out the 5/16" threads, there is still some partial threads on some of the sides.
this let me know that my first method even though it looked okay, It wasn't getting me as close as I am wanting it to end up.
now I just need to make a centering plug for the other end.

this last week, was a good one, the weather hasn't been the best, clear, cold and windy, a good time to stay inside and finally was able to combine with my friend, and exciting times, we got a things done and the I am moving forward. Someday I hope to get a mill....
so we got the hole milled out for the drive pulley bearing holder with .030 clearance, drilled and threaded the holes for the starter motor,, just need to bolt it all together and see what happens...
now I will be looking at where I will trim the brackets down a little, to take some of the extra weight off.

the second hub extension turned out great. I have learned a lot, and expect to learn a few more things before this is all done. It is just great, after playing with this idea for the last 2 years to see an end in sight....kind of excited....

PS. that little drill and tap guide came in real handy today with keeping things lined up for the starter bolts. I remember a few years back, when I was trying to mount a starter motor below the #3 cylinder, with a chevy flywheel. I had to weld in the holes more than a few times to get it located in the right place, today was a lot better day...

well, winter is almost over, and it is getting nice to be outside and playing of this build some more. these last few months I have been watching some This Old Tony utube videos. On how to fab up some things so I thought I would give it a try on the bottom plate of the redrive, to see if it might work for me...
so the first picture is of the outline sketched out of how I was wanting it to look like, then I drilled some holes around the outline, and as I was carring it over to the saw, it slipped out of my hands, and bounced off the wood floor. It came apart better than I could of ever hoped for.... I am going to have to try doing this on other things down the road.

today was a good day, the sun was out. The snow is melting, even watched some awesome avalanches come down the mountains. from 6500 feet to sea level. it was a rocking and rolling. but through it all I was able to get a little work done. I had been putting off doing the final cut on the plates for this project for some time. the weather was just kind of miserable outside for most of the last 3 months. but I had to take advantage today...
with so many loose ends on this project with the fan drive shroud, the redrive, every thing kind of ties together. and just need to get some things done in order, so I am not going back and redoing things...
so I tackled the redrive today. and finally made the final cuts. on the plates, and put it on the 084 motor for the first time. all in all everything came together nicely, That monster nut on the back of the spindle fit, but it was close. to the intake..
and the only thing left to do is make a little bracket to have a bolt push against the idler pulley bracket, to keep it tight....
now with it mounted on the motor, I can start looking at building a stand for it.
on the plus side of things, on the sunny days it is not getting dark util 10 pm now. and gaining 5 minutes a day. life is good.

the only thing that I am seeing is, not having a stand off on the corner next to the idler pulley, I may have to address that corner... the whole idea of having a plate on the outside of the drive pulley it to keep the any side load off the rear main bearing.
down the road I hope to finish up the original design, with a full front plate, may I can get some milling time with my friend once this dang virus takes its course. only a couple of hours to bore out 2 holes..... but maybe I will be happy with this set up and leave well enough alone....

thought I would throw a picture of my simple set up for removing the stock flywheel. I loosened the bolt about 5 turns, snugged up the puller with a good amount of tension. gave the end of the puller bolt, one good hit with a hammer, and the flywheel popped right off. I like to leave the bolt on, for 2 reasons. I don't damage the threads, and the flywheel stays on the end of the crank, and doesn't bounce off the floor and break...just a little bit of stored energy....

the avalanche in the picture is a good 1 mile wide. there was a couple of people hiking below on a trail. But where off to the side of it. they had some good pictures of it.. it is pretty impressive to listen to the roar it makes..

HI Bart, Looks great !! One of the downfalls of the single plate design was that top pulley flexing... If you look at the old pics on here Chuck had run additional diagonal braces off the backside of the plate to try and keep the flex to a minimum.. That's how the dual plate set-up came into existence for the 084...
That's a lot of snow coming down there..:shock:.. I bet it gets everyone's attention when that rumble starts...

[QUOTE=Corky;39337]HI Bart, Looks great !! One of the downfalls of the single plate design was that top pulley flexing... If you look at the old pics on here Chuck had run additional diagonal braces off the backside of the plate to try and keep the flex to a minimum.. That's how the dual plate set-up came into existence for the 084...

I can see that, in some of the searches, there have been a few that with the single plate. have had a few different styles of bracing, one even ran a piece of angle from the lifting eye to the back of the plate.
I still am trying to combine with my friend to mill out the front plate with 2 front holes... so I could go with the original design.
but in the meantime.. I figured that I better move forward with what I have. so I can go to the testing phase.. at the moment on plan is to use some 4" channel, going between the 2 plates and run up to the top of the back plate. on the odd cylinder side it is rather simple. but on the other side I got to contend with the idler pulley bracket.. This might keep a lot of the flexing at bay,
another item that I have noticed, with the arrow prop, and circle S redrives. both are using only the lower 4 mounting bolts, with mine, it is using all 6.
I do have the pulleys a little further apart at 8.5 inches center to center. part of that reason is just to be able to lower the CG down 2 more inches.
At the moment this is looking for the best alternative.;stir;
I was watching the video of Les's motor again, It is impressive how much torque with the prop, it puts on that stand. It can make a person stop and rethink some of the little things we are doing, when we are fabing things up.

I see where you're heading with this... I figured you had it under control...:wink:...Keep up the good work !!

I was going through some pictures the other day, and came across how I mated up the flywheel to the driven pulley, and thought I would share them.

when putting the flywheel on the pulley, the bolt circle was lining halfway on the inside diameter on the pulley,
and if I moved the bolt circle diameter out, then it would interfere, or the socket head machine screws would go into the ribs on the pulley
so we machined out a little hub to fit inside with a stand off to center the pulley on.
the pulley screws are somewhat centered on the 2 pieces. and hold it together.
the hardest part when matching the hub to the pulley, was at the time I didn't have a mic or calipers that were large enough to measure the dia., so we got it close then turned off 0.0001" at time. the old saying is if you take to much off, time to start over. and really didn't want to do that
there could have been other ways to have done it. but at the time it looked the simplest...
ps. after putting it all together this summer, I didn't have enough clearance for the end of the starter motor bendix, sometimes the math does not come out like you would think, but I was able to shave off 1/8" from the inside spacer. putting the flywheel closer to the pulley, and it is working good.
sometimes a person lucks out...