about 6 years ago, a brother gave me an mini airboat hull, with a old hirth 460 motor( that was missing some important parts)
for what ever reason in all the searches on the web, i never came across this site untill last fall, man talk about lots of answers & information that is on these pages,
anyway, this project has been mainly just a dream, and last fall i was ready to get rid of everything, then i came across an old Cuyuna motor 460F-45 with the gearbox and prop. for a good price, picked it up, tore it down and got it running. then i came across the Mini Airboat page here.
then back in december i came across a 4a084 bare motor for real good deal, the seller had 5 airboats in Wassilla, and not enough time to acomplish all the dreams.
I have been dealing with 2 stroke motors for the last 25 years with Snowmachines, and still am trying to figure out which motor to use on this hull
both put out about 45 ponies, for fuel consumption, the Cuyuna will burn over 2 gallons an hour. but only weighs 70 lbs. with the motor, gear drive, and prop.
and the 4A084 it has been discussed quite regular.
as always i thought the aluminum hull was a lot bigger than it was, at the moment it is leaning against the shed, buried in about a foot of ice, and 4 feet of snow on top. been cold and rainy this winter, so it will be a little before i get at it. but it is 11 X 4 ft, with 16" sides. looks kind of tippy for the heaver motor.
oh the things we collect, and the fun we have with the choices we make.
at the moment i may build a motor frame for both engines and see what happens.
a couple of questions on the mounting locations for the 4a084 motor, at the moment it looks like a direct drive, but i would like to build the frame so that down the road i could change over to that fancy Circle S Redrive, where would i find a template for the 3 motor mounting holes
been looking at Corky's build on page 11, if he would be willing to give out the magic numbers off that template that would be awsome.
enough talking about me, maybe I hope to be able to contribute a few small things once in while, to make up for all the information that i have learned the last couple of months.
have a great day , we have 4 feet of fresh powder on the mountain, it is hard to get to serious when there is sunshine and fresh powder

Hi Bart, well it seems you have some good choices for a powerplant...I see the 084 has a ring gear on the front...I'll dig out the measurements for the 3 point engine stand..I know Aerokirk has the measurements also I discussed it with him when I was at that phase of the build...

o the ring gear, i took that off of a snowmachine clutch, have a few of them around.
honed it out, so it would fit on the inside. but then the snowmobile starter motor, will crank it over with out the plugs, but
really didnt want to do much but smoke once i had compression.
when i pick up a motor to work on, first things i like to to, check compression, spark, then make some noise.
have a sore shoulder, tried to pull it a few times, and left it at that.
have a hub coming in from Arrow Prop, should be here later this week,
now the choices are to get a 9 tooth starter with a reduction gear in it,for the front.
or put a flex plate on the back of the motor and go that way. (like the green machine)
or sell some toys and get in line for a Circle S drive, (which might be a year or two down the road.)

an other good one, if you see the oil line to the govenor doesnt have a cap on it. it does shoot oil out about 10 feet. just when cranking it over, in case anyone is wondering. (at least my boy had his mouth closed)

:lol:...I bet that was an eye opener !! One thing about the 084 there's plenty of choices to fit anyone's needs and the starter configuration is no exception...I see your plug wires have the rubber coating...I've seen that on a few other engines...I wonder what application called for that style of wires ???

Hi Bart,
Here's the 4A084/Circle S three point engine mounting footprint...The front mount is dropped one inch from the two rear mounting points...That will give you 3/8 to 1/2 inch of adjustment to lower the front mount{relative to hull} when you need to fine tune your build...Start with a 1/2 inch {+ or-} stack of washers under the front mount to bring the hull and drivetrain parallel to each other as a starting point then you can add or subtract them as needed...;thumb;

it has been a busy last couple of months, progress is slow with family and other activities taking up a lot of week nights.
but there has been some progress. finally got with a good friend who has a mill & a lathe,
milled out an adaptor to go on the hub. to put a little space from the flywheel,
for the last couple of weeks, spent looking at how to mount the chevy starter motor, with the materials at hand
and last night made a rough mock-up of what might work, now just need to transfer the design to a longer piece of angle, so I can get a couple of mounting bolts to the back of the engine. and fab up a couple of stiffener brackets to the inside of the angle.
I think I have been able to attach some pictures, I will have to see if they upload.

I was looking at putting a snowmobile starter on the front, but none of the starters that I had, had enough life left in them to turn over the engine, once the spark plugs were installed.
so I decided to go this route. by this time next week I hope to hear it running

question, I am looking at anodizing most of the aluminum that is on the prop & hub.

looking at some of the parts on the motor, I would like to do as well.
like the valve covers, front timing cover, the intake manifold and tubes, and the push rod tubes
these all appear to be aluminum also.
or are some of these made out of cast pot metal?
to save the headache of cleaning all the paint off of the engine parts, I might put in an order to Saturn Surplus, just in case things go wrong.

just seeing if anyone has tried this route for making the motor stand out a little more
have a good week, we just got 2 feet of snow, and more is said to be on the way, so much for the nice sunny weather we had 2 weeks ago.

Hi Bart, nice hub !! The valve covers are cast aluminum...Intake runners are high grade aluminum...Not sure on the pushrod tubes or the front timing chain cover someone that has disassembled those pieces hopefully will chime in...Time to get the magnet out and see what you've got there.... Do you have a local shop that does annodizing ??? Annodizing is a great idea here's something to think about... I've had some automotive trim annodized and it was actually more expensive than the chrome plating...Hopefully you've got a place in mind that will give you a deal on the process...I know some companies will wait until they have X amount of parts on the rack for annodizing and you could get a deal if they want that batch filled...

I have a friend that has gotten into anodizing in his garage, just have to buy the dyes, the funest part will be getting the parts free of the oil and grease, then deciding what colors I want to go with.
I was hoping that most of the parts are caste aluminium, if there are different metals in the casting, from what I have read, when you put it in the battery acid, it will dissolve the other metals. So I guess I will find out

PROP QUESTION
I have an older composite prop that came with the hirth motor. just wondering if anyone might have seen this style before, there are not any markings on it to even know who made it.

finished up most of the starter motor mount last night. it looks like it might work. there is a little play on the end of the starter, but the end is almost in line with the center bolt on the oil pan, just need to make a little bracket to stiffen it up, and should be good to go.
only had to elongate one of the holes,
next step, mounting brackets to connect to the frame.

well i found out from some numbers that were on the end of the prop, that this is a warp drive prop. And was made back in 1990, and as normal i have it on with the hub plates backwards, now back to the mill and bore out the center hole on the plate i didn't do the first time,
I was very impressed that the folks at Warp Drive still had access to records from 1990 and were able to give me the manufacture specs for this prop.

tried starting it up the other night, and found out why the starter had been sitting on the shelf, for the last couple of years, tore it apart, cleaned up the armature and every thing was looking good, you just don't want to have a finger next to the brushes when you pull them off the end of the armature. the springs are kind of strong.

put it all back together, and it worked, put it on the motor, cranked it over, had to look at the spark plug wiring, a couple of times. ended up pulling off the valve covers, turning it over by hand to see when the # 1 cylinder was at TDC, i am glad that i remembered something from auto mechanics back in high school, the # 1 wire, was on the bottom right hand corner of the mag, for this motor. sitting here at the computer, i am thinking, that i could have pulled off the plate where the governor was, to double check. i will do that tomorrow. hind site is such a fun thing.
while cranking it over there really wasn't much flexing on the starter motor, that makes it simple, but i think a small stiffener wouldn't hurt, just to save future problems.

then it finally fired off. i was thinking here we go. and yep there it went, my remote starter switch gave up the ghost, and the solenoid for the starter decided it had enough also.
but at least i got to listen to the motor for a couple of minutes,
checking on solenoid prices, it looks like ebay will be the ticket,

in the meantime it looks the anodizing dye came in and, so sometime soon we will see how it goes, reading up on anodizing a little more the cast aluminum has a lot of silicone and other metals in it, so the anodizing of cast aluminum may not be such a great idea. but the rest of the stuff, hopefully it turns out.

last weekend was fun we received a foot of snow on Friday, and then 2 feet on Saturday, now it is back to the mid forties and melting pretty quick.

one more question to throw out there, i know from my snowmachines, that the stator on them puts out plenty of juice for the lighting. The only problem that i have with the 4 wheelers and snowmachines is with the small batteries. you are lucky to get more than 2 years out of them. but the charging system, has never let me down.

i see a few different options that everyone has tried, and am wondering what is working the best?
A: rewiring the stator to 12 volts, down from the factory 24 volt.
B: wiring in a rectifier, to bring down the out put voltage to 12 volts.
C: or building a small bracket and installing a small alternator.

thanks for having a place to post the fun and entertainment that these projects give,

Subscribed.

I've used an external generator on my boat, it didn't really lose any power from running the extra belt. With that said it is another part to go bad and more expense. I've been using the stock stator with a rectifier off an Onan generator and it's worked fine for the last 3-4 years or so. I forget when I put it oon.

thanks, it is good to keep things simple, reading some of the older posts in the wiring thread, where this has been discussed quite frequently, from what I understand, with the voltage regulator/rectifier the stator will only put out 12 amps.
or am I reading this wrong?

(Fortunately, there's an easy, simple solution. Key West Controls makes a nice solid state voltage regulator/rectifier that works very well with the 4A084's alternator. Together they'll provide a 12 amp, 13.8 volt DC charging system, which is what we need for a 12 volt electrical system.)

I am used to the stators on the 4-wheelers and snowmachines that are putting out around 500 watts or 40amps. which about half of this goes to running the motor, which leaves around 20 amps for the lights and accessories.

where the 4A084 doesn't need any power source to keep running, but 12 amps is kind of on the lite side of the equation.

the fun continues, finally was able o mill out the correct side of the hub plate , my friend picked up some more toys to play with on his mill. he is going to be a bad influence, I would like to see something like this in my collection in a couple of years.
then as I was leaving he happened to let me know that he has polishing set up, that I could borrow.

so I took the buffing /polishing supplies, an I just needed do something, so I started on one the intake tubes. a while back I had taken them off, and smoothed out the weld build up on the inside, so there would be better air flow.
anyway, on the one I took off, there was a pile of JB weld on the casting, I hadn't really thought much about it. until I found out why,
it started polishing up real nice, but there was a little bit of wax getting left on it. so I took it in the house to wash it off with some hot soap an water, and with the heat a tang fell off.
I don't the story, of how it got broke, but JB weld can be helpful in a pinch. it was better to find the problem now, than down road and have a burned up piston
the repair didn't turn out to bad.

As far as the charging, remember the 084 runs off the magneto which is its own power source for spark. The stator is only for charging.

Bart, maybe you can fab up a alternator bracket like shown if you want to run more juice etc.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/5555ee45c20d9db1b1d70c98a7023b86.jpg


Sent from my iPhone 4S

Papee,
the reason i have the question about how many amps the stator is putting out?
is because i am looking at what type of lighting to put on the air boat.
and will also be looking at having a small atv winch also. i know the stators can't keep up with the winch, if it is used constantly, and will draw the battery down.
but lighting is a must have issue. lights have changed for the better these last couple of years with the LED light bars, i just don't want to overload the stator.

an other priority is to put a ATV hand warmer on the rudder stick, nothing like keeping the fingers warm.
(they can draw up to 40 watts)
i don' have enough knowledge to convert all the amps to watts and all that fun stuff, but i have put hand warmers on some of my older toys, and everything else suffers.

the reason for a winch, later down the road i plan on having a small removable boom on the boat mounted in the center of the boat, ( i may need to get a bigger boat hull, or at least higher side boards) but they are very usefull to pick items out of the water or marsh to load into the boat. my brother has this set up for loading moose in his boat.( it works quite well when you are sinking waist deep in the marsh, and the side of the air boat chest high.)
i don't plan on picking up a whole moose, at once. but anytime you can save the back, it is worth it. i will have to find a picture of the boom set up and post it later, it might be a usefull idea to someone out there.
so the three items that i am looking at powering, are
lights (must have)
ATV handwarmer on rudder stick (must have)
a winch (down the road)

i hope this helps in seeing why i am asking the question?

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

(http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator)http://www.hamuniverse.com/ohmslaw.html


http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp

(http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp)http://www.bing.com/search?q=youtube+ohms+law&form=SK2IDF&pc=SK2I


These links might help.

I have my nav lights as well as lights I use for night fishing. I also have an anchor winch that I use often when fishing. It's about the same as an atv winch. I have no problem keeping the battery charged.

thanks for the info. that the stator is keeping you happy.
Papee,
i think i will follow your lead, the reason i mention the hand warmers, the weather up here is fun, in the summer, it will be sunny and 80 degrees, then the next day it will be raining and 45 degrees. i have ended up putting hand warmers on all of my ATV's, maybe i am getting old, but having my hands out in the open breeze, when it is cold and raining, isn't so much fun anymore.
one thing that helps if you put an hand warmer on the rudder stick is to spray a little expanding foam inside the tube. this really has helped a lot of toys that the do not put out a lot of voltage, so most the heat is radiated outwards,

been having fun playing with the 4A084 engine. I didn't like how the push rod tubes were looking so took a couple off to get a better look at them, really don't know how the bend came about, but one of these was next to the mag. attached are pictures of the worst 2.
I ended up ordering 8 new ones, from Saturn Surplus, all of them had some major dings, and with the bow in 6 of them, I just didn't know if the O-rings would hold.

it has been snowing almost every day for the last 2 weeks, so I took time and cleaned out the webbing in the intake manifold, after reading how the back cylinders liked to run a little lean, may be this will help, it is a fine line on how much is too much to take out. but with a 1" flap whee on an extension, it didn't take to long to make it look good, also cleaned up all the inside root passes where the intake tube were welded to the mounting flange, I have learned from rebuilding a few motors that smoothing out all inside passages for the air flow can make a big difference,
even looking at the gaskets, to make sure there is not a little lip hanging out. a lot of little things make a big difference, with the air flow.

I think I have more fun going though a motor and seeing what little things that can be fine tuned, and are in need of repair.

You're right Bart, all those little improvements add up to big gains in the long run..The intake joint is definitely an area that usually needs attention...I bought an NOS intake joint in the box for future mods and that one does'nt look any different with casting flash needing attention etc...

Been playing with an anodizing set up this after noon, and it is going into the evening, first batch, was a push rod tube and 2 valve covers, the valve covers fizzed bid time, in the acid. And the push rod tube just hung out, after the allotted time, the shiny covers came out of the acid, almost an off army green. And didn't take any dye color. The push rod cover came mat blue,
This is the first time posting frome the phone, need to read up, to find the part for adding pictures, but I did upload some to the face book page, I'm a lot handier on the computer, than the phone

finished for the night, not bad for the first attempt at anodizing, someday maybe i might know what i am doing, but it is fun to try something new and learn different things.
i didn't know what would happen when i put the valve covers in the acid bath, they really fizzed a lot and continued for the 2 hours that they were in the bath, probably the silicon that is used with cast aluminum, but i like the texture that they ended up with, tomorrow i will have to drop one on the floor and see if it breaks or anything like that, they just have a good feel to them,


the push rod tubes , a couple of them didn't have to good of a connection. and only turned a light blue, the others went dark,they all looked real uniform before i put them in the sealer tub. maybe i just overloaded that tube also. you wouldn't think 3 or 4 tubes would be overloaded in a small bucket, but something changed the appearance of all of them.
there are a few spots and other imperfections that came out. on the cover that i made for the governor, a line came out on a corner of it, from looking at the picture with everything in the acid bath, i may have just put to many items in it at once, for the line almost looks about where one of the tubes was between it and the lead plates,
Monday when i try it again, i think i will only put a couple of pieces in, and see if that makes a difference, for even the tubes all have spots that are kind of look like things have been overlapped.

this isn't a quick and easy task, but i think i will like this type of coating, where it will not chip off like paint, i just have to learn how to get even, and consistent coverage.
there has been a lot of time spent sanding, (note to self, when you sand through your fingernail, it can be painful.):eek: so don't let your fingernails rub on the sand paper, they do go down a lot quicker than the aluminum.
well it is getting late, but with a couple of days to think about the process, hopefully i can eliminate some some of the errors that i ended up with today.
i am thinking, that i will run the valve covers through one more time, maybe with them having a anodized coat on them, they may take some color the next time. where i purchased some extras from Saturn Surplus. it doesn't hurt to play around, and see what will work

So-Weeeeeet

Hi Bart, looks good !!! Not too bad for your first attempt...I'm liking the satin finish....Temps, humidity and precise timing are very important on plating...A highly polished part going in the vat will give the shine everyone is accustomed to....Annodizing in peticular will bring out even the smallest of imperfections I've thrown away many perfect "appearing" trim pieces knowing small pits would be amplified with the annodizing bright dip... If you don't like the end result you can always submerge the part in sodium hydroxide {lye, as in drain cleaner} that will strip the annodizing in short order...Then I sand/buff the trim to check for imperfections before sending them out for replating...

Thanks for the encouragement, next week, I will take a little more time. Picking up a few things in Anchorage, this weekend, it is fun when you have to drive 300 miles one way. To hit the home Depot, lowes and other stores. Shopping local works some of the time, but you just don't get the selection. Shopping on the net just isn't the same for some parts and pieces. But things are starting to look better, just can't wait to get this part of the build done, so them I can clean things up and start on the next phase, but I am kind of waiting for the snow to melt, so I can put up a wall tent. Almost every where else in the state there is no snow, and I still have almost 3 feet of it still on the lawn. Go figure.

was able to do a little anodizing on the parts and pieces last week, finding time is always fun, but it was fun to learn what to do and what really doesn't work, but I like the coating, because it doesn't chip like the paint. But the nice thing about it is if it doesn't turn out how you like, you just put it back in the lye bath, which will strip the anodize off of it, and start again, the prop hubs really took a good shine, but the tubes ended up being kind of a flat color, lesson learned is to always wear gloves when handling during the process, on the intake tubes, when putting the 2 different colors on them, the first color was simple, just sat them in the bucket of dye, but when I put the other end in the dye, I ended up trying to hold them, trying to hold them steady for 20 minutes, was not that much fun. I probably will redo them in a week or so, and see what happens.

so I purchased another set of push rod tubes to see if the finish was any better than what was on the motor, there were still a lot of dings on the new ones, so I took the better of the bunch and colored them. really didn't look at the expanded lengths that are on the ends of the tubes, until I installed them.
Upon seeing what looked like an optical illusion.
I had to pull them out and see if the lengths were the same or if something had went wrong.
well it confirmed it, that I had 2 different castings of the push rod tubes, which I didn't notice before.
now I am thinking of going back and separating the castings by color, just to keep things looking the same,

also it looks like some time this motor, had a new head put on the #2 cylinder, just from looking at the casting that holds the O-rings for the push rod tubes, is different than the other cylinder heads.
I am still thinking that the motor doesn't have much time on it. when I purchase it, I was told that the meter had only 43 hours.
but seeing some of the cooling fins, that are bent and other minor damage here and there, it probably fell sometime.
but just from looking at how clean the inside of the heads are, i think i will be happy with this motor once i get on to the next part of the build
one precaution that i have done is that the motor is tied off to the rafters, with a rope. Just in case of an earthquake, or something like that.
i really don't want it falling off, and breaking something else, ( some of the things, you have to worry about living here).

it has been fun playing with the 2 motors, this last winter, a little about the Cuyuna motor, i have replaced all the seals,& bearings in both the crankcase and the gear box, I ended up pimping it out a little, I was wishing that I had the righ stuff to anodize the cast aluminum on the motor, but I really did not want to end up with a olive green motor. the only item that I was able to anodize was the prop hub and face plate.
all that is left is to get the linkage for the carbs, and it will be good to go.

and then i am back to the dilemma with a hull that is only 4 feet wide,
it came with a lightweight 2 stroke motor, and the seat on it was almost level with the top of the sides, to keep the center of gravity down low,
with it sitting like it is, the motor would be sitting 8 inches lower than the original motor,
with that I will be needing to redo the motor stand, and prop cage, but anything to lower the center of gravity can be good, to a certain extent.

with the 2 stroke motor i could even hang it upside down and really get the center of gravity almost 18 inches lower. the only downside is keeping the plugs from being fouled out if/when the carbs leak.

at the moment i am thinking that if i am wanting to use the 4A084 motor, i either need to split the hull i have and add 1 to 2 feet in the middle, or just build me a new hull.
the plus side if I build a new hull, then I will eventually have 2 boats (this may be what I end up with)
I really think I just need to get started on the motor stands, and see what motor will feel like, sitting on the boat hull that I have at the moment.

the pros for using the 4A084, is the reliability, & fuel economy of this motor,
the con will be the weight for the small hull, if i do not change anything,
about the only thing left to do on the 4A084 is maybe change out the carb, i have been reading a lot that has been posted about the VW carb, both on this site and other places,
but then i read about mukini carbs that have been tried on them. and i have every things on hand to go this route

i am thinking that the biggest problem the intake has, is that for every corner and bend that the fuel has to travel, the fuel is separating out of air, with using the VW carb. and redesigning the intake, the flow will be more even & consistent to all four cylinders, where as it is, the back 2 cylinders will always be lacking.

the pro's about the cuyuna motor, only 70 lbs. with motor, gearbox, & prop.
the con's are having the 2 stoke oil film ending up on everything, burning 2 to 4 gallons of gas an hour, and the good old reliability issue, when it runs to lean due to temperature or elevation, there goes the motor, i will have pyrometers, on the motor, but who is going to watch it all of the time, a company called Starting line Products, used to make a devise called a stutter box, that was attached to the pyrometer, and when the temp. went above a set point, it would cut out every other spark, so you would know, that you were running to close too the edge. and are needing to make some changes. but i don't see this around much, since the most 2 strokes are EFI now days.

well enough for rambling on. just a few of the things that i have been thinking about.

I moved this to the builds forum, lots of great work here. Thanks for contributing!

Yes, looking very good/nice job.

Hey Bart,
I really enjoyed seeing your pics on the Cuyuna engine! I had one just like it on my first airboat, well, actually it was a Rockwell JLO 2F-440 (Cuyuna bought out the Rockwell but kept the engine pretty much the same). I had it mounted on a 14' Jon boat and it did pretty well considering. I still have the cage/engine mount structure which I made from 1/2" black iron pipe which fastened right on the boat's transom similar to a boat engine. It was all one unit with two rudders and a control stick & throttle for sitting in the back of the boat and could be lifted on and off at will. I was going to find another Cuyuna for it but I think I'll just sell it instead. As soon as the snow melts here I'll post some pics of it on the boat.

Aerokirk, did you have the belt drive, or a gear box on the Rockwell?
a couple of concerns i have about the gear box, when i purchased it, it was dry, with no drain or fill plug in it, i was told that the motor was started and ran a little bit about 8 years earlier,
when i opened up the gear box i could see where there was some light chatter marks from the bearings. the first conclusion was that the gear box was ran dry and over heated the bearings, which would cause the outer race to skip a little bit. but the damage was not consistent with that theory, a couple of the bearing had a little noise, but they all probably could have lasted, but replacing them is a cheaper insurance.
and when i put each of the new bearings into just half of the case, it was a very tight fit. (one time when rebuilding an other motor, one of the crank bearings had spun, so i used some shim stock and wrapped the outside of the bearing, made it a tight fit again, that was 5 years ago and the motor is still running strong.)

but the other concern that i have read about is that there is not enough side support for the bearings in the 2SI gear boxes, and after running for a while, they will build up heat, and due to the apposing side force that the gears put on each other while turning. that the driven shaft or bearing will want to move out of the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4UsKoqDcKc here is a utube on how one has attempted to resolve the problem.

on the NOVA gear box that i have, the inner bearing on the driven shaft sits inside a recessed groove, and for the outer bearing, there is no recessed groove in the housing, but they have a spacer that is press fitted on the shaft that makes a snug fit between the bearing collar and the prop hub. so i really don't see this giving me the problems that the 2SI gear box has, even though the nova gear box is an older style.
it just gives me things to think about, when you have a older gear box. that you can't purchase replacement gears and shafts for anymore.
i will post some pictures of this tomorrow.
one more question. about the Rockwell motor on your first air boat, did you notice a lot of 2 stroke oil film on anything? at the moment i am thinking that if i have the correct mix, most of the exhaust should be sucked past the prop and if anything i would notice it more on the rudders than anything else. but i could be wrong.

added some of the pictures of the gear box with the original bearings, where chatter marks are visible, also in the gear box.
the last picture is what could be a problem, that i didn't think about.
when I anodized the hub. I left it in the solution to put about 1 mil of anodizing on the hub.
I haven't torqued down the hub yet. I don't know if it will close the gap, or if I will need to make a spacer for it.
when I took it apart. there was no gap.
I forgot about when I added 1 mill thickness to the inside of the hub it might change the tolerance. note to self. (next time buy the tape they sell for anodizing, to mask off critical areas).

Sorry, can't help you on the gear box as mine was direct drive. Regarding the oil film, that was a constant problem as there would always be a film of oil on the prop after using. The major problem with the oil was on the flex exhaust pipe between the engine and muffler where the oil was of thick black tar consistency from picking up exhaust gases and would drip all over the bottom of the boat and gas tank. The 084 runs so much cleaner!

i was afraid that i would get that answer about the oil dripping on everything, it does make a big mess.
here with the Coast Guard & Fish and Game cops, it can really get exciting, if you spill any gas/oil drops in the water,
there are some rivers down on the Kenai, that 2 stoke outboards are have been banned. so far in this part of the state, that hasn't happened yet.

Well the days are getting longer, and it is getting a lot nicer, to work outside, it seems like sometimes you take one step forward and two steps back, some days. I was looking at the starter set up, and with mounting it at 90 degrees from what it was meant for. I noticed that all the drain holes, really were not going to do any good, and especially where the bendix is, it would catch a lot of water and fill every thing full of water, so I took the starter apart, hopefully the last time. Drilled a couple of holes in the cast aluminum housing, and also at the end of the motor by the brushes,
The starter came with weep holes, but with them at the 9 o clock position, they really were not going to do the job.
Over the years I have lost a few winches, due to water getting past the o rings, freezing and popping the magnets off the housing,
I will keep with the starter design and see how it goes, just have to always be careful with the snow and ice build up in the winter
Now I can see a little wisdom, with those that have gone with the other style of starters,
the one I am using, was simple to line up and drill the mounting holes,
Now I will just have one more thing to keep my eye on,
But on a better note, by this weekend, I should be having both motors up and running. I am getting kind of excited to hear the 4A0084 run,

after looking around, if the style starter, that I have proves to much of a headache,
I will be able to swap it out with one similar to this one http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004RBWV5K?psc=1
and it shouldn't to difficult.

A question about the rudders, what are my options to keep the aluminum skin tight to the styrofaom? On the ends it will be riveted, but what can I do for in the middle of the rudder, to keep the skin snug? Or do I need to worry about this.

So I had some fun with a few different options on cutting the foam to go inside the aluminum skin, first tried a foam cutting knife, it didn't go so good, as the pictures will show, then I tried using a 12 inch sawsall blade, worked a little better, but what a mess. so then I ordered some of that wire of of Amazon to make a bow cutter, while I was waiting, for it to arrive, I cut some out some 2" pieces out with a jig saw, that was looking a lot better, finally the wire showed up, and made a makeshift bow, after looking on line, at what 12 volt power supplies that I had on hand, I tried my battery charger to see if it would work, I really don't see me using a foam cutter to often, or I would have took the time and built a custom power supply, I tried a smaller 2 amp charger first, and it was, well very slow, the wire close to the outside would melt into the foam, but the middle section, it just wasn't happening. So then I got out the big charger, set it at 12 volts, 40 amps, it still wasn't fast, but the cuts looked good, and I was able to go back and do some trimming. I don't know if I would recommend using a battery charger, but it worked for me, this time.
note:
one thing that i found on cutting out the second piece. is if i started the cut where the pattern was even with the foam, i would get a slight bow in the middle, this due to the center of the wire not being as hot as near the ends, so if i went half way down and went into the foam where it was at least a 1/4" of foam before i came to the pattern. work the cutting wire side to side, then the cut was a lot straighter, and not as much cleaning up.
time wise it took less that a 1/2 hour to cut out each piece and clean the rough edges up. where if i would have used the pieces that i cut out with the jig saw, i would have needed to silicon and screw the pieces together, then spend a little bit sanding down all the uneven sides to make it a smooth surface. so the 7 dollars and a week waiting for the chrome nickel wire was worth it.

HI Bart...If you're going to rivit the pieces together try to keep the same dimensions as the foam you've cut...Here's a few options off the top of my head...One route would be to rivet the end without the foam inside..Keep the dimensions tight so the foam will have a resistance fit going in...
Second thought would be to assemble the unit as you've pictured and use 3 or 4 small ratchet straps to pull everything together snug before riveting ...You could possibly make up some wood spacers shaped like the foam for either method if need be..

That being said the foam is simply to keep the sheeting from drumming it really does'nt need to be extremely tight...The top and bottom end caps will hold the shape...

thanks for the couple of pointers.
Wish me luck on drilling a hole that is straight, I figure that as long as the exit holes are laid out, and centered. There might be a little fun, in keeping the drill, plumb to the hole being drilled.

I was looking at it some, I think I will at least try this on the first rudder,
rivet it together with the foam in place,
I can push the end piece in so there is less than a 1/4" sticking out, and just by holding it like this, the skin is looking real tight, I am afraid, that if I rivet it together without the foam in place, I would probable break the foam just trying to slide into the foil.
With the aluminum being .032 thick, I am thinking of running a couple of rods, with bolts on the ends, along with some silicon to hold it all together, I just don't see welding anything this thin.
On the nose there will be a small gap, I am thinking of filling this area with expanding foam or silicon, so when it is hit, it will not dent so easy.

it is just nice to be able to cut out a smooth pattern on the foam, and it really wasn't as hard as i thought it would be.

maybe I need to send the rudders down to Corky when i am done putting them together. and he can practice his paint scheme on them first, so when he does his final drawing on his rudders, they will be really something to look at.

Regarding the hot wire power, I used the power supply from an old C-band satellite rotator which was 30v and did a perfect job with my hot wire cutter on my foam. There should be alot of them out there since there used to be so many of those dish systems years ago.

Well I never have had much luck, drilling a hole though something 3 feet wide and having it stay on point, and I really didn't want to make a wallered out mess of this, then I came up with this idea, use the hot knife and cut out the holes, it turned out not to bad.
On the first one I didn't leave the knife in to long, and it took a little to get the core out, on the second one I did allot of slice and dicing, and the cores almost fell out,
Still have a lot to do, but getting little things like this done. Makes the days go a lot better

Nice. Did you use a Chevy 14" flexplate? And how did you mount the starter?
Thanks, trying to build a library on my PC when my build time starts, but I'll probably lose it.

Mr. Rollbar,
for the starter set up, I first tried a smaller ring gear on the pulley on the front of the motor, but none of the 3 starters, that I had would crank the motor over, once there was compression. ( Eskimoboy put a set up like that on one of his builds), but I think that the starter he used had a planetary gear in it.
really didn't want to go spend an other 150 for a new snowmachine starter,
so I started to follow Mr. Doozit's lead. on the direction that he went with. I had an flex plate and starter left over from replacing the transmission in my sons truck. just needed a spacer to give some distance between the prop and the flex plate.
Mr. Doozit had mounted his starter on the other side, of the motor. but with the materials that I had on hand, what I did worked out.
( I still need to finish up couple of things and see if the motor will start up. ( when I do, I will put a volt meter on the stator, just to see what the raw voltage that it will produce.)
there are many different ways and ideas that you can use to attach an ring gear and starter motor, to this motor, that is the beauty of playing on these motors, nothing is set in stone, and a lot of the people on this forum, have came up with some real awesome ideas and designs. my own method is usually comes from a bunch of hard knocks and mistakes. and by the 3rd or 4th attempt, I will usually get it somewhat right. or at least it is working good enough to go forward.
but have fun with your build, and enjoy the small successes.

Thank you, I'm asking these things to save some time and I do understand.
If I can keep the OEM starter and use that while reducing voltage after the regulator, then I'm good to go but won't know until I have the engine in front of me.

That is my plan, to keep OEM and after that (if freezable) feed the supply voltage of 12v to the battery/lights etc.

Thank you,

P.S. Are you running the OEM carb or are you switching to a Solex like some have mentioned?

at the moment i am leaving the stock carb on the motor, i can understand the fun it has given many, where it has a few flat spots when you open it up. i don't know which direction i will go later, the VW carb. looks like it gives a pretty good bang for the buck. but i have a bunch of mukini carbs hanging around, already have everything to put it together, so maybe after i get it running, (still haven't taken the time to start it. (busy tending grandkids after work the last couple of days)) i have read a lot, on many of the forums about the mukini, solex, and if i had the money, i would attempt to go to the SDS fuel injection. i know that they are a install your self kits, but maybe latter this summer i may call the company and see how hard it would be to set up. sometimes it is fun to throw a zinger in the middle of things,
i could keep it stock, papee and others have put alot of information about the small things you can do to help it out.
alot of the air craft forums went to the mukini carb, but i haven't seen many new posting in the last 10 years, (with these two i am not out any cash)
the VW carb. it depends on what quality of carb that i want to go with, i have a cousin that used to play around with them alot back in the day. and i will need to visit with him, on a few pointers.
i guess i will be coming up to this cross road before to long.
you are starting to get me more things to think about, this is what keeps a person young.

it has been a busy time, lately, more grandkids coming to visit and summer is here, almost 18 hours of daylight. I love summer in Alaska.
I have been looking at a few things on this motor, after torqueing the hub, there really was not a lot of clearance between the bolts and the flywheel, so I went to a socket head machine bolt. but I forgot to think about repositioning the starter, I would crank it over and the tang on the solenoid would kick out of the lever that pushes the bendix out. but I was able to finally hear the motor run, it is real loud with out any muffler. the grandkids went running to their moms real quick. they didn't know what was in the shed, but they didn't want anything to do with something that loud. my wife is still laughing about the it.
so while the motor was running, every once in while I would see a few sparks coming off from where the flywheel was touching the bendix. but the oil pressure was looking good. the gauge was reading 60 psi. then I happened to look over at the #2 cylinder and the exhaust was just a little red. so I shut it down. I was thinking about all the possibilities of why just one cylinder would act up. if it was the timing, being retarded, I would have all the cylinders running hot. so the next, thing would be air leaks, which like a dummy, after taking everything on and off of the motor so many times, why would I want to put silicon on the gaskets?
if I might be taking it apart, again.
so now all of the intake is sealed.
Just need to finish up getting the starter situated a little better, might need to make a new bracket, depends on how elongated the bolt holes end up. also thinking about fabing up a muffler setup. so the neighbors don't get to excited.

played with one of the rudders last night for a little bit, put a small bend in the aluminum so it would hug the Styrofoam a little better,
I decided to apply a thin coat of silicon on the inside skin of the aluminum so it would be a tight fit. ended up using a little over 2 tubes on 1 rudder. put some clamps on, to hold everything tight while it dries. and I will look at it tonight, and see how it looks, but things are starting to take shape, a little here and a little there,
I am liking how lite these rudders are ending up.
I wish I would have taken a full picture of the motor when I got it, It wasn't something that would look good on the kitchen table. (not saying that I have used the kitchen table to assemble things before). if I hadn't seen what every one was doing with their motors, I probably would never had thought about pimping it out, but it gave me something to do. this partial picture will have to do.

It looks like a tight fit back there...If all else fails you could take some off the bolt's head to gain clearance if the other style bolts don't suit you... You have an interesting history there in Valdez Bart...Is there any remnants of the old town that was relocated ???

I thought I would put a couple more pictures of what I tried with putting the rudders together, on the first one, I still was concerned about the silicon keeping everything secure, so I put some small screws, with the style of nuts that would sink into the Styrofoam. I just kept them close to the edges.
after looking at it last night, the silicon was holding every thing real good. just need to put rivets down the tail of the rudder, and attach the bottom and top cap, along with the pivot rod.

the second rudder, I decided not to use the screws, the silicon appears to be holding real good, just put in some pictures of the coverage, also, on the first one, like a dummy, I used my arm to spread the aluminum open while I applied the silicon, (sometimes I need to just stop and look at what I am doing), a 2x4 or a stick works a lot better. also when I put the boards and clamps on it, one little rock was imbedded in the plywood, that I didn't see, it made a nice little dent. (might be the first of many, when I get it running).

I found some machines bolts locally, to help with the clearance problem. (just didn't like the thought of the flywheel catching one of those bolts and creating a lot of entertainment). the only kind they have in town were stainless steel ones, but I have some grade 8's on order, but for the moment I can move forward on the little touches in finishing up the motor odds and ends.
I am having fun looking at all the different designs of the frame for the motor mounts. at first I was wanting to try to do a mount similar what has been done for all that are using the circle S redrive. but with the starter set up, I am using. I could/may still use the 3 point setup, just the elevation on the back two mounting points will be a little lower,
really haven't done much conduit bending, but I like how I have seen in the last couple of builds, where a jig has been made, and the frame was built to match the jig. I might have to ask for the help from one of my electrician friends, in making all the bends, they make it look so simple, (they are always telling me that practice, makes perfect),

Corky yes, Valdez has some history, started out with the gold rush, as the gateway to the interior of Alaska, not as talked about as the Chilkoot Trail, or Nome, but until Anchorage developed, this was the place, to get off a boat, traverse 60 or more miles over multiple glaciers, then a few hundred more miles to Fairbanks where gold was being found. I don't think I would want to do that. they were some tough men back in the day.
after the earthquake in 64, they moved the town site down the bay, about 5 miles, to a little more protected area, haven't really took a count of how many homes were actually moved, I know of 5 to 6, with out really thinking about it. it is kind of sad that the town lost a lot of the Alaska frontier look, in the rebuild. (you look at other coastal towns in Alaska, and you see the old store fronts, and boardwalks) so much history disappeared, when the town site was moved.
and a lot of the residents of that time frame are not around anymore, and they are getting fewer, and fewer
I came to Alaska in 82, and worked in the fisheries for about 20 years, those were some fun times. now I am just managing a tool room, at the Alyeska Pipeline Terminal. it keeps me busy, and I am always learning new things, every day.
one quote that I have always heard, is when the town was settled, back in the day, the natives that lived in a village just outside the narrows, always said " only a white man is dumb enough to want to live there". makes you kind of wonder. if we are all that smart, or not.
I think that this was due to that fact of all the glaciers in Port Valdez at the time. you always had fog and the mountains held a lot of the weather, it can also be about 10 to 15 degrees colder, like I tell people that ask what the weather is like here. when it is sunny it is hot, and the scenery is awesome, but when it is cloudy, it is not.

a question about the stock carb on the 4a084, I have been going over a lot of the builds and have read a little about the drilling out of the metering rod, and from what I am understanding is that the upper hole next to the threads, that if it is drilled out to the same diameter as the bottom hole, 1/16 of an inch, this will really help out.
is this correct.

an other question, I have looked a lot of places, trying to located a fuel flow diagram for this carb,
in the past with dealing with the mikuni carbs, there are many different ways for adjusting the fuel, at the different throttle openings. I copied a simple picture of a mikuni carb that has an simple explanation of what part the gas is being delivered though, at each part of the throttle opening

just wondering if any one has seen a chart like this, for the original carbs on the 4A084 motor?
I understand that the this is a very simple carb, but still there has to be some drawings someplace that will show how the gas is metered throughout the throttle cycle

well a little update, picked up some EMT and started on putting together a motor frame,
it has been fun reading what others had done, cutting the fish eyes out with a router, it works real good, and just looking at the different ways and styles that have been used,
anyway, i was visiting with my brother in Cordova, about what methods that I was using, and when i mentioned that i was using my little MaxStar stick welder, he had some advise, that i had not came across before, or even thought about.
he mentioned that EMT and stick welding, was not a good idea, a friend a couple of years back made a cage for his airboat the same way, using a stick welder, long story short, he finished building his boat, and a tree branch happened to tag the cage, every joint on the cage shattered, just next to the welds. the prop didn't like it much either.
as far a I know nobody was hurt.
they figured that using the stick welder, it created to much heat, on the weld joint and the EMT, tubing next to the weld became brittle,

he recommended, that his first choice would be using an oxy/acetylene torch, it spreads out the heat the best, and has a better cool down.
second would be a mig,
but if i wanted to use my stick welder on EMT, just be ready for it to shatter when bumped.

i have been recalling that back in the day, he has has his cage banged up pretty good. but the welds never broke. at least the times that I went with him. I even recall that he even rolled one of his airboats next to the beach, once. and his cage held up. and he was able to get back home under his own power.
so after thinking about this, it is time to find a mig welder at least,

then I also decided to build the frame for the motor, out of square stock tube. it might weigh a couple more pounds, but it will give me a little more piece of mind.

so maybe the next couple of weeks i might have something to show.

i have been looking for parts and pieces for the 4A084 motor, it seems like finding spare heads, are far and few between.

so for the last couple of months, on craigslist, a gentleman had been posting 2, 5 KW generators for parts, over in the valley. really wasn't thinking much about it. until i started looking a little closer at the pictures. they were powered by the 2A042 motors, the part numbers for the heads, pistons, and from what all i could see where the same,
so i made a quick call to Saturn Surplus, where they would let me know if i was correct with my thinking or not.
and as luck would have it, i was going to Anchorage last week anyway.
so know i am the proud owner of 2 very heavy gen sets. after getting them home. i was looking at them a little.
one of them is missing a mag. But i purchased them for parts. and i really can't complain about that, for what i paid for them.
one was built in 64, and the other in 69. both have around 1800 hours on them. turned them both over a few times with the plugs out. the compression was reading around 120 on both motors. sprayed a little WD-40 in the cylinders and the compression went up to 135.
then the impact extension i had ground down to fit in the drill sheared. so i didn't get to see if the other 3 cylinders jumped up in pressure or not.
but that isn't bad for 2 motors that have been sitting out under a tarp. for the past 10 years.


the motor with the mag, even has a good spark. latter this week I'll look at the carb, and see if it will start up. ,
one thing that i did hear, when spinning one of the motors over, was it was sucking air around the rubber hose that connects the intake tube to the intake joint.
i think that i will be purchasing new rubber hoses for the 4A084, it is always the little things that will get you. on these motors that have been sitting for a while.
i had replace the front and rear main seals,
and for as many times that i have taken the intakes on and off. the rubber hose, looked okay. but when the motor is running i don't think i would hear the air leak until it would be to late.

the latest direction that i am going.
is to invert the cuyuna motor and put it on the small hull. this will give me the lowest center of gravity
there may be a issue with it being to small, but i have visited with a few, on how to rectify the situation without building a complete new hull.
so maybe here in a few weeks i will know a little better in what direction this is going to take me.
i can see the lighter motor with what i have being a better match-up. and if it is to unsteady, i will look into widening the hull a little.

with my 4A084 motor, i will be slowly putting the rest of it together. hope to have a stand for it also, to be sitting on before to long, ( if nothing else, it is a lot easier to move them around, ) when they are on a stand,
just having the Cuyuna motor on the EMT stand at the moment. makes it so much easier to get a better visual of what is needing to take place.

but on a better note, the kids were out on the 4-Wheelers the other day, one of them ended up rolling, after turning to sharp to go down a small embankment. all i know is that somebody upstairs was looking after them.
it really makes a person stop and realize what is more important, material items can always be replaced,
I even had some good father/daughter time, as we attempted straighten out some of the parts and pieces that didn't fair to well.
to many times we take for granted that we or our family all will come home, safe and sound, after each adventure.

Hi Bart, glad to hear nobody was hurt with the tumble...
I used a 110 volt mig that uses .023 wire for my stand and cage...I can keep the heat down where it just gets the job done without too much heat transfer...The longer it takes to cool the better...I burnt myself a few times as I welded different joints around the rigging so I knew it was'nt cooling too fast and making the tubing brittle...I did a test originally and the tubing bent long before the welds gave it up...Now stick welding on the other hand, you deal with no shielding gas making for some dirty welds and the major heat transfer as you've mentioned...

There's been a few NOS 084 heads for sale on Ebay here and there but a steady supply of them...Right now there's an overrun of NOS 084 cylinder jugs on there for sale...The hot rodder in me wants to buy some and modify them for more HP but I'll wait and save that fun for a later date...:lol:

Funny you should mention those manifold tube seals I changed out the original style corbin clamps for some stainless steel band clamps to make sure they were sealed up tight...I too saw the potential for trouble there...

I have a friend that will loan me his mig welder, until I find one, kind of hard to keep the fund going, when small things get in the way, but it could have been a lot worse,

Corky you are always coming up with things that I should know, seem to keep forgetting, maybe I am just getting to excited, at seeing some progress, and keep forgetting some simple checks.
Living so far away, and for 50 dollars, these gensets will give me a lot of extra parts, the fun part is just finding a good place to store them.
I to have been looking at what others have tried on these motors, some talk about shaving the heads to bump up the compression from the 6.5 to 1. Stock ratio, at least that is what I remember reading.
I keep reading about the head bolts being weak, and don't like the extra heat so much when you raise the compression. Then someplace else a person stated that the next weak link was the rod bolts.
I guess these air cooled motors have a few limits that may not liked to be messed with.
I was looking at using the intake setups off of the 2A042's and trying the dual carb aftermarket version that are being put on the VW's.
It is fun to think of all the things that have been tried. It just seems like most are having the best success with modifying the air flow, with carbration and exhaust.
But at least I have a few replacement parts I hand, for when I do have something that doesn't go to well.

Mark is keeping an eye out for me for heads. If he hears of any bulk buys on them he is going to let me know.

put together a stand for the Cuyuna motor with it inverted, and after looking at for a while just didn't like how it was looking,
I had always been assuming that if it was upside down, it would lower the center of gravity, in the boat. a couple of problems that a friend has with his inverted motor, is the plugs are always fouled, after it sits.
sure enough I pulled a plug and it was full of residual oil that found its way to the lowest point. and also all the porting is slanted upward.

so turned the motor over to see how much I would be able to cut off the stand and still have everything working.
it was almost 10 inches that I could lower the stand, and after thinking about the weight issue, the heaviest part of the motor is in the lower end,
I am feeling a lot more comfortable with the base a 10 inches lower.
but as you can see the prop is really looking big compared to the boat.
now i just need to take it over to a pond and see how it looks in the water. and that should give many of the answers for a few of the questions that i have about this.
looking back, i have had this hull for over 5 years, and haven't tried to see if it will even float.
one thing that I am liking about this hull, is the C channel that was put on the bottom edges of the hull,

Too much fun, the boat actually can float,

some day i will learn which is up on the phone when taking pictures.
using the c-channel for a reference. the back of the boat was drawing 1-1/2" at the stern, with the kid. with me it was a good 3". it is interesting what an extra 35 pounds will do.
sitting on dry ground, the hull didn't feel to stable. but when in the water not to bad. I actually felt kind of comfortable while rowing around. really didn't want to rock it to much with the motor stand, not attached to the hull. still almost thinking about splitting the hull, but i am leaning towards getting a cage put together, and just taking it out on the water to see what it really will do.
there are a few variables, still to verify, the prop came with 15 degree blocks, and i will need to see if that will keep my RPM's in check. the books say max RPM should be 6500, but it has been recommended, that i should not go over 6000.
and the people from competition valley props, think i might need to go up to the 18 degree blocks to keep the RPM in check. (from the information that i have given them.)
at times i wish the rotation would be the same for both the motors, where i could use the warp drive prop. (where i could adjust the pitch of the blades, by just turning them.) i guess that is what you get when you have 2 different directions to go.
but then i have heard a rumor of a 6' x 12' aluminum hull for a mini, a couple of weeks ago. just waiting for pictures and to get in contact with the owner.
i am just glad the i don't have to many more decisions. and that life is as simple as we make it. i just cant believe that the summer solstice is almost here, time is going by fast. but i am really enjoying the journey and the information that i have learned, man it is just fun to see a project, that i have been sitting on for over 5 years, starting to really take shape

If you have a iPhone, put the volume controls to the bottom where your thumb would rest, then it will be in the right position.

Bart, that engine should make that hull fly !! Not sitting too bad..You could certainly run it as is....You're right, splitting the hull and widening it would be a good thing but a major undertaking for sure...Ultimately you need to be the judge of how stabil the hull is and if it's needed...

I'm sure once you get some weight in it, battery, fuel tank etc. it will make a difference. The green boat felt the same way when I tested it with nothing in it. After it was finished there was a big difference with the final weight.

well a little more has progressed, when I was given this hull it had a cage, but last summer I gave it to a friend that is thinking about building a hover craft with his son,
in many ways I am glad I did that, I could see a lot of headache in trying to adapt a cage to fit a different motor. you would think that you might could salvage some of it to save time, but after putting this together I am glad that I am beginning from scratch.
it takes a little thinking to get all the radiuses and joints fitted somewhat right.
tried cutting the fish eyes with a router setup. it worked okay, but only on the straight pieces, I ended having better luck with a 4 inch grinder with a tiger paw disc on it. to get the custom fish eyes made. which so far has been almost every cut.
then I added a lip onto the back of the boat, it is riveted on at the moment,
have one rudder almost finished, they were pretty light until I put the end pieces on. they are weighing in at around 13 lbs. each. for bushings I am taking some 3/8 brass pipe fittings, threading the 3/4" aluminum pipe that I have for the pivot point. and they appear to fit alright. and a 7/16 th bolt will fit just right, to mount it to the frame.

just looking at how everything is lining up, I probably will move everything forward about 4 inches, I am thinking that there is just to much weight on the stern.

just throwing out a question. I am using 1/8 rod to fill in the gaps, on the cage, every where I see that the rod is tacked to the outside of the EMT.
I was playing around and drilling 1/8 holes in the emt, then sticking the rod in the holes. then tacking them.

I will be drilling a small hole at all the low end of all the separate runs. just in case water does find its way in, so it will drain out. ( I have seen to many allegedly piping that is water tight, expand and break during the winter.)

I have been tossing it around whether to use both rudders or just one, with this hull being so small. after visiting with a few, I will assemble it with both the rudders and see what it does.
from what I have read, if I am understanding it correctly, I will be wanting to keep 5 to 6 inches between the leading point of the rudder and the back of the prop.
please let me know if I am correct on this.

Went to a new ABoat shop today/grand opening and they had a verity of boats/new/used and I checked the rudders and the pivot points were 5"-6" from the leading edge of the rudder. All boats were either car or A/C.

That's a good looking cage Bart...Yes, as stated your 5-6 inch offset on the rudders will be fine...There's a general formula out there somewhere for that leading edge pivot point{compared to the rudder's width} but for our applications it's safe to go with that...

You need to be more concerned with sealed joints and/or some type of drainage on the cage more so than some of us that will never see operating under freezing temps with our rigs...Any help is good help to keep from frost wedging and breaking the structures...
Looks like you've got the right idea for the rear splash tray it looks right at home back there...Keep up the good work !!!;thumb;

well I have been having fun with the rudder end pieces
with out having access to a aluminum mig welder, I have been practicing with stick welding aluminum. it is kind of fun. it can get you by in a pinch, but if I had a aluminum mig set up, life would be simpler.
anyway, I had used silicon to hold the ends on. but once I put a little heat to attach the cover end pieces, the aluminum ends started separating from the foam. not good,
I really didn't want to discard the rudder and start over,
after a few days of thinking about how to secure the end pieces so they don't start flapping. the center and front of the rudder are good with the 2 rods traveling all the way through them. it was making me wish I would have put an 3rd rod in the rudder.
but that was not realistic, unless I was wanting to start over.
at the moment I was only thinking that the only way to securely attach the ends so the wouldn't keep spreading apart, was to try to tack weld it. tried the stick aluminum rod on a few scrap pieces, and it just melted though.
it is amazing what a little strap and rivets will do to hold things together. sometimes the solutions to small hiccups are pretty simple.
so the pictures are showing the gap, showing the strap that I put on the front and back of the unfinished rudder, separating the tail of the finished rudder to slide in a strap. and then the finished product.
with not an feasible method to get to the front of the rudder to put a strap on it, for had already welded the top plate to the pivot & through bar. I ended up welding an thicker piece to the front part of the rudder, so it wouldn't flex, like the tail end

I was told from a local, that those who run small motors like the 084 usually use a 1/8" flat sheet/sized/some bracing for rudders since the 084 won't make that much difference with the airfoil type rudder.

Anyone care to comment?

the local is probably correct, and from what others have talked about on this forum. either/or will work.
it usually is dictated by what materials, the builder has on hand, and the time they have to put into it.

my little project came with a flat sheet for a rudder, and if I had stuck with that, I would never have learned a lot of the things that I know now.
but I wanted to see I could make the foil rudders that I am working on.
back in the day, just to get the boats going, plywood is a good substitute also.
I am having more fun, learning different ways of making things work.
that is what I have enjoyed most about this forum. is to see the ideas that have worked, and not so good ideas that have been brought up.
I was kind of bummed out, abut how small my hull was, but after seeing a new posting a month or so ago, with a boat as small or smaller that what I have, I got pretty excited about, getting this in the water, just to see if it is going to work or not.
any way enjoy the journey

Managed to get a little time to put the rudders on, there are a lot of little things that i have learned. From the first rudder to the second one, someday I might get it right the first go around. But that would take all fun out of it. I love this weather,;thumb; these pictures were taken at 11:00 pm tonight, but we are losing 5 minutes of daylight every day now. :cry:
I made the rudder mounts out SS unistrut, I like how they turned out. between rebuilding 4 wheelers, and car motors, it has been a busy week.
I decided to get fancy with my drag link, a lite weight titanium steering arm from an old snow machine,
Ended up moving every thing forward about 4 inches
Now I just need to make up the steering linkage, seat mount, fuel tank, and throttle linkage. them it will be test time.
This has been a fun project, and I have learned a lot, almost can't wait to find time and start on the second build.

Hi Bart...Those long days would take some getting accustomed to...It makes it nice to get some work done though...I like that titanium link it does the job nicely...The build is progressing fast....

As Aerokirk has pointed out in a previous thread the airfoil rudders cut down on the turbulence of the edges{during turning} compared to a flat sheet...My theory was being a smaller engine it needs all the help it can get to move the air effeciently at all times...And the cool factor is a plus too...The downside is the time,cost and design of making them work compared to the simpler flat sheet fabricating and fasteners...I've got a plywood rudder on my old mini and it needs changed out about every 7-10 years...

thought i would give a little update on this project. so last fall i ran out of time. and it might have been a little cold feet also. just have been not liking having a 4' wide boat bottom. so this winter i picked up a 5 x 12 sheet of aluminum. and have been waiting for the snow to melt, my shed just isn't big enough to even think about splitting the hull and adding some width to it.
i have been tossing back and forth to, either weld or rivet the piece in.
then these last couple of weeks i have been doing a lot of searching on the web, about pulley redrive systems, and dreaming up a setup for my 084 motor, when i came across this web page
http://waterbugairboats.com/index.php , and the boat that they have on this build has a hull that is very close to what i have. on top of that they posted a 5 minute video of it running on a lake.
if i would have came across this last fall, it probably would have given me enough answers in my mind, that i would have this project in the water.
on top of this, it is warming up. and even though we have received over 2 feet of snow this last week. it is in the mid thirties and what snow we have left is starting to melt. :-P
i never thought i would say i am glad to see the snow start to go. :roll: it is a bitter sweet time of the year.

That boat moves along great !!! See how the bottom is actually wider than the sidewall at the top ??? Somehow they've tapered the sidewall going from the wide bottom inward then up to a narrow gunnel...I would'nt think that would work so well but there's the proof...

so trying to get back into this getting this going again. i had been looking at the different types of throttle that i could use, i was thinking of keeping the seat low, I didn't like the idea of putting the pedal throttle on the floor of the boat. just asking for trouble. but i really don't like using the twist grip or the brake lever style. that are mounted to the rudder stick. (my wrists are not limber like they were when i was a young kid).
the only way that i could see either of these methods working for me, would be to use a steering post like a 4-wheeler or snowmachine. but this just looked awkward to me.;stir;

but after seeing the video of the waterbug airboat, with the operator chair up on a platform. well i liked it.
i had been looking at buying a peddle throttle for the past year. just couldn't see forking out the money for it. (if it proved not to work, with it being located on the deck.) (and one more thing to add to the scrap pile)
but after taking a good look at some of the styles that are out there,
i put this together, the only thing needing to finish, is the linkage from the pedal to the cam.
just taking a little time to decide, at what angle i will want the peddle at.
it really didn't take much to put together. :-P
and all this cost me was my time.

Nice, not much to them for the price they get...The biggest trouble spot will be figuring out the correct sweep to match the movement of the carb..

finally we have some sunny days, and the snow is starting to melt.
looking at the stand the I had put together last summer, it just didn't look like it would work with lifting up the seat and all. so i started putting together another engine stand and seat.
it has been kind of fun, to start working on this again. and now I have a better picture in my mind, on how I am wanting this to turn out. If there was a simple way to mount the chair stand to the bottom of the boat. i would be almost done. but it was a good days work. at least it has given me an idea, for the height and layout for the throttle pedal.
you will have to excuse all the extra items stored in the boat. the shed is kind of small, but at least i am not digging the hull out of the snow bank.
and the only flat spot that i had to work on was the 4 place trailer. but it put everything at a good working height. it really saves on not having to bend over, all the time.

a little more done, cut out and tacked in place the bracket for the seat, it is fun trying to keep everything looking even, with what i did tonight, the frame really is solid, just a few more things to fit up. gas tank, battery mount, rudder stick & linkage, control panel, (should only take :roll::roll:just five minutes, right)
then i can take it apart, finish welding all the joints, clean it up. and
when i don't have a lot of room to move around and look at it from different angles. but at the moment it is looking good. In fitting the conduit, i have resorted to making the final fit with an flap disk on a 4" grinder, after making the angle cut on a chop saw.

this last winter i was going, in a lot of directions working on modifications on my other motor, the 4A084. different styles of intakes, retrofitting a 250 watt stator off of a 4 wheeler, and some other things, and it is close to firing up. just need to finish up the exhaust, and wire up all the switches. then see if any of these things will actually work.
but i am needing to get this boat out of the shed, to free up some room to move around. it is a juggle, just to see which project i end up working on the few nights a week. but everything is slowly coming together. and i am getting real excited to see if any of these things are actually going to work, like I think they will.

a few more updates, I have been thinking of a few different methods to attach the frame to the hull. where this hull came with 1 x 2 channel with an 3/8" backing plate on the underside. rapping the edges and running a bolt from side to side. just didn't see drilling a hole and keeping it straight.
could have welded a plate on the bottom of the tube, but not really knowing the exact location that I am needing the frame to balance out the boat, didn't want to have a bunch of holes drilled and taped in the channel.
so I decided to use some Duron blocks, drill a 3/4" hole, for the tube, and mill out a 2" recess on each block. that will keep everything centered and plumb. and if I need to slide the frame, to adjust for the weight, I am thinking, it will be fairly simple.
( I was thinking I would only need 2 blocks on each side, but after actually seeing how it looks, I will be placing 3 blocks on each side. plus a tab that will fit into the end of the tubes, that will be bolted down also.)
at the moment I have just taped the aluminum for 3/8 bolts, but I have helicoils ordered, so I shouldn't have to worry about corrosion galling the threads.
as luck would have it. these blocks fit snug in 1-1/2 unistrut. using this as a cover plate. i should not need to worry about these blocks being a weak link.

for my bushings, for the rod that the rudder stick pivots on. where the hull is not that wide, I needed something that I could bolt and unbolt, I used some sway blocks off of an old snowmachine chassis,
It was fun figuring out the lengths and distances that was needed, on the pivot points. so the stick range of motion, would be comfortable.

things are starting to finally take shape.

it is always a couple steps forward and then a step back. after securing the frame to the hull. and looking at everything, i could see that the motor was not sitting quite square.
but it was a simple fix, where i hadn't put the bracing on the front of the stand. I cut the top braces and was able to push the top part of the stand square with the hull. and after welding the an X brace on the front. I was able to square the motor mount with the hull.
there might be a couple more small braces i need to add, where the stand is welded to the bottom runners. but it feels very solid,
i like how i can get a little bit of show done, then i spend a week or two, to bring finish up the small details.

so in bolting the stand to the hull i thought i would go over a installing the helicoils. when i dismantled the original frame, i ended up cutting and grinding the bolts off. they were seized real good.and i didnt want to go through that again.
there are a few different styles of kits. it depends on how much you want to spend. i purchased a 25 dollar kit. that has everything except the drill bit.
also i purchased a drill bit stopper. so i would not drill though the bottom of the boat.
after drilling the hole, then tapped it out with the tap that came with the kit.
the kit also has a 3/8 threaded stud with a cut on the bottom to catch the tang that is on the bottom of the helicoil. if needed you can take a bolt and cut a groove in it to do the same thing.
then screwed the coil just a little past the top. after this take a punch and knock of the tang, they bust off pretty easy.
as you can see from the last picture. the remnants of the rusted bolt, and hopefully i wont have the same problem in a year or so if i ever need to remove the engine stand.
after installing a helicoil for all the bolts, that are holding the stand to the boat hull. it took longer to stop and take pictures, and write it up.
but now i can keep going forward. finished up most of the bracing on the stand, and rudder stick.
now the check list is getting shorter
mount brackets for fuel tank, and battery
mount thottle pedal and hook up the linkage
connect the wiring.
finish up the cage.
i can almost see an end in sight for this build,

You're making some good progress Bart...Looks like you're coming down the home stretch...;thumb;

i am having fun, getting the fit and finish, when looking at how to attache the foot throttle. the support tube just wasn't working out to well. so i replaced it with a piece of uni-strut. even though i can look at what others have done, and try to copy some of the ideas and methods, i find out that usually i may not think it out so well. and will always have to make some adjustments.
like on the very front of the frame where the peddle base hangs over, i need to build a support for that, and it needs to tie into where the frame curves down.
so it is always the little things that i am having fun with.
but i do like the angle that the peddle is set at, as to where i am sitting, ( it is comfortable, and i am almost starting to make noises like i am driving it around.)
an other thing that i will need to adjust, is the rudder linkage is not long enough now. so i will need to extend a mounting bracket, so the stick will be more comfortable.
the best one is, on the peddle. i was/am making a threaded adjustable linkage, so i could adjust the peddle height, but at the moment a flat 1" x 6" x 1/4" piece of aluminum with multiple holes, is working just fine.
ended up welding some gussets onto the back side of the rear legs.
there is not a lot of show work going on, but getting all of the little things done, and taking time to maybe only redo some of them twice. i am sure once i get it all together, there will still be some changes that will have to be made. i just hope that it will not be to many.
still looking at adding a little height to the sides of the boat. to give it a true 20" sides. but that will need to wait until i get it out on the lawn (need a little more elbow room) and maybe when i set it in the water for the first time, i may feel comfortable with the way it is at the moment. time will tell.

i have been thinking about how to get the throttle cable connected up. takes a little more thought, for the fit and finish. I ended up using parts and pieces of what i had on hand. with connecting a snowmachine and a 4-wheeler throttle cables together with a power mad cable connector, it gave me enough length to get to the peddle.
it would have been simpler to get a cable clamp from the store, but they are all closed by the time i get off work. so i improvised. used a part of a throttle block from a snowmachine, which ended up moving it an 1", out of line. so i cut down a 1/4"coupling nut to get the offset. i will need to get a small barrel clamp to clamp the 2 cables together, but wire clamp is getting me an idea of where things need to be.
I ended up using the 084 choke cable, with its barrel end to fit inside the 1/4" coupling nut. it was nice to have a clear throttle body connector, so i could see the cable travel distance. to set the thottle stop at. so i don't end up stretching the cable, if i press to hard on the throttle.
just need to pick up a panic kill switch & a bilge pump.
mount the fuel pump & battery brackets. finish up a couple of the wires. and i will be pulling it outside to put the cage on.
just don't have enough time in the evening to get all i want to do. but the snow is almost gone and it is staying light almost tell 11:30 at night.

Bart i can see a lot of thought went in to your build and sure looks heavy duty. it will probably last a lifetime. great work and keep it up. just wish i had the patience to do such nice work.

well i am starting to get the bug, and get this out on the water and see what it will do. it is funny, looking back at this build, a year ago, i thought i would have it done, and here i am still playing around on it. but it has been a fun journey, i guess that is what i get for working on 2 different motors, and always tinkering on other things that come my way. there are still just a couple of small things that i need to address, but all in due time. but i am hoping that by tomorrow evening i have it in the water,
it never fails, it doesn't matter how many bolts and nuts you have on hand, you never have the right one, once the store closes. or you set a specific small part down, get side tracked, and then spend 2 hours trying to remember where i sat it down, and not get side tracked. i had turned some 1/2 SS bolts down. to where there was only 1/2" of thread left, and the stub that was left, will be the pivot for the rudders. needless to say, a trip to the store for more bolts, a little lathe time. and as i was cleaning up and putting things away for the night. guess what i found. other than that and a couple of other misplaced items, it has been a good day.
i have been spending time with my oldest son, glad that he is still here. a few days ago, he went out with a few friends camping and playing on the 4 wheelers. luckily for him he tagged a bald tree. as he was racing down the trail. they were 15 miles back on some trail. and another 4 hours away, once they got to the vehicles. i am just glad that he was wearing a helmet.
at the moment the xrays so the collar bone broken. we have a appointment in Anchorage, next week for an MRI and a visit with an specialist the nest day to see what more damage has been done. all i know is that someone was looking over my son, any way as the summer takes off and all of you are getting ready to go playing, be safe, and enjoy the time you have with your family and loved ones.
by the way, this motor does push a little air. as luck would have it, the back of the motor is pointed along side of the house, and it blew most every thing off the porch. i will be hearing about that for a few days.
i am enjoying these sunny evenings, i am getting spoiled. it is midnight and still light enough to work outside. there just is an noise ordinance that starts at 10 pm.

Hey Bart, glad you're getting close to the test run...Have someone make the video if you can so we can help with the hull/engine adjustments.... Man, that looks like more than just a break that collar bone is shattered with other parts moved around...I'm sure that was quite an impact...My buddy did that on an old 3 wheeler ATV back when they were popular there's no graceful way to fall of those...Best wishes on his recovery buddy...PS. I did get the video you sent but deleted it before I replied sorry...

sorry to hear about your son but when you have active ones they are always getting banged up. things we go through as parents and not much you can do about accidents they just happen as much as you try to keep them safe it still happens. hope he gets along fine and recovers .

well it floats.
https://youtu.be/iOcn2OtljGs
https://youtu.be/xAQrZZ21AbI
i never have uploaded to utube before so lets see what happens.
i was able to view it okay.
the first clip is a lot of stop and go. just getting used to the rudder took a little time
and the second is a little s turn, not much. but next time maybe the camera crew can get some of the more entertaining moves.
my daughter took almost a 100 pictures, of me pushing off the trailer. (in hopes that i would fall in) i can feel the love.
but they didn't have the camera rolling when i slide into a 360. my wife thought i was going to roll it on that one. the gravel pit pond was big enough to have some fun. but not big enough to really open it up. once it would pop up on step. i was needing to turn. and this being the first time, in 30 years to actually be driving one. it put a smile on my face. i can see putting a little more height to the gunnel. 4 more inches on the aft. would really make a difference. also a automatic bilge pump is on order. when i came back to the trailer, i figure i had about 40 gallons of water. ( it makes it all the more entertaining with that water stacks up on one side when turning. if i hadn't kept the momentum going, i probably would have got a little wet. but it was fun.
with the boat only 4' wide. it is going to take a little bit to get used to not letting off the gas when it starts to slide sideways.
it seems like it takes about 20 to 40 yards to pop up onto step. and by that time i had to get into the turning again. so i wasn't able to just cruse on step for than a couple of seconds..
about the only thing i can move in the boat, to balance it out. is the gas can. i may look into moving the seat and gas peddle forward at leas another 6 inches. just to keep the aft from sinking so low.
i don't know if i need to change the angle of my motor. i do have another gear box that i picked up with the 2.65 ratio. that would give me another 300 RPM'S on the prop speed.
i never had time to really look and see what the motor RPM'S were doing. as my better half was saying, there was a few times it looked like i was holding onto anything i could for dear life. so maybe when i get out onto some open water, i can see what the RPM'S are really doing.

great job bart. looks like all you need is some room to open it up.
by the way beautiful mountains.

Agreed, plenty of thrust it seems...Just need a little more room to open it up....Great job !!;thumb;

now that i have taken it out, and seeing a few items that i need to modify, and waiting for a bilge pump to show up. i figured i needed to clean things up and put a little paint on it. things turned out okay. after painting the inside of the hull white, had my daughter help with a custom splash of blue specks, so it wouldn't so bright.
on the bottom last fall i put a coat of regular oil based paint on it. (i thought it might help is slide. boy was i wrong.) now with some gator glide on it. night and day difference.
i lucked out the last 2 days it was calling for rain, it even looked like rain. but it has all blown over for the moment. now just letting everything get good and dry, and put it back together.
after visiting with my brother in Cordova. i will be putting on some higher side rails. at least on the back 3rd of the boat. there was one time when i was out making a turn and i heard the prop striking water. nothing was damaged. but it took all the reflective tape off. i have the original ones that came with the hull, but i am looking at fabricating something up that will look a little cleaner. and wont have any bolts on the outside to catch on anything.
on the note about protecting the leading edge of the prop. i was visiting with another friend that has a small plane, and he was mentioning that the chip guard tape same as the 3M prop tape. this is something that i need to, between the bugs and the rain drops. it can take a toll on the leading edge of the prop. looking at the different mill thickness, from what i see, an 8 mill tape seems to be the most popular.
i thought i would show a couple of pictures of the bolts that i turned down to hold the rudders in place. when i first put the rudders on last summer. i just grabbed some 3/8 rod. boy did it rust up and just looked not so good. really didn't want to buy the SS rod, so i went this route. with a lock washer in place, i hope that these don't come loose.

one item that i almost made the worst oversight on was the rudder top pivot.by not putting a stop on it. i put a thick red line where i need to install a stop. otherwise if i push the stick too far forward, it could overextend the linkage joint, and come in contact with the prop. something that i did not see, until i was taking things apart to clean up and paint. when i put it back together i will show a better picture of what could have happened. it is always the simple things that a person can over look.

I ran into the same situation during the linkage mock-up depending on how it was oriented Bart...I had enough adjustments to take the problem out and balance the travel...I've added a stop just as a safety feature in case the linkage wears over time..

The paint looks good it sure brightened up the boat...;thumb;

i think the problem i came across with the linkage, and why i didn't notice it before, was when i moved the motor frame forward a couple of inches, it allowed the linkage to like hyper extend itself. but for what ever reason i am glad i found it. I remember reading about when you (Corky) put yours together and even went as far as to put a locking tab in with the linkage to hold the rubbers in place during traveling or a high wind storm. just to keep them from banging around. i think i will follow your lead on this, and come up with my own version.
slide the motor stand onto the hull tonight. (that is one slick bottom.) i had to ratchet it down a couple of places and it still wanted to slide.
i will have to come up with a different tie down method now. a ratchet strap over the rails just isn't going to do the job anymore.
it finally started raining tonight, and it wouldn't hurt to leave the cage under a roof for a few more days. so the paint can cure a little more before it is out in the weather.
i am thinking that sometime i will anodize the throttle peddle, and at least put some grip tape or something on the foot plate. so the feet don't slide around to much.

i am liking how clean the hull is looking, i am trying to figure out how i can keep it looking this nice, while running a 2-stroke motor. but at least now i have a clean hull, and hopefully it doesn't take to much to keep it this way.

a couple of options i am looking at to stop any more water coming over the back part of the boat. , putting a 90 degree bend on the original side piece and bolt it to the top of the C channel. that way it keeps the outside clean and smooth. and give me 24" on the back part of the boat
or use the 6" aluminum cable tray channel which will give me a 22" side. and with this i have 10' sticks, so i could run it further up to the bow of the boat.
either of these should do the job, if i do use the original piece, i will be covering that edge with a split round pipe or something.
(years ago i was working on a fishing boat, that had a 2" tall piece of flat bar around the hatch, had my feet knocked out from under me and my side landed on that edge. that hurt for more than a few months. needless to say i am not a fan of blunt edges.)

it is hard to know when to call it a night. took these pictures at 11:30 tonight. and i need to be to work at 5:30 in the morning. I love the summer time.

at the moment i am fitting the old cable tray to the boat, i first was thinking of putting the edge below the G channel. but i didn't want to have any bolts on the outside to get hung up on anything. so i thought about how i could put an curved angle on the edge of the tray, so it would be a custom fit, and sit on top of the G channel. ended up clamping it to a 1-1/4" pipe and pounded out the curve with a dead blow hammer. just need to weld up the angle. at the moment i will bolt it to the back overhang and drill and tap it to the G channel. i could weld it. but i am wanting to see how it works, and some times it is nice to be able to take things apart with out to much headache. if it doesn't work out.
i may put a short piece to round it onto the aft of the boat. i am thinking with the slick bottom, when i let off the throttle. the boat should go forward far enough that i shouldn't catch the wake coming over the aft of the boat. ( at least that is what many have stated about these mini air boats.)
i am also thinking about putting a short cover on the bow also. just in case the nose ever dips into the water. (that is what the big piece of aluminum is for that is leaning against the other trailer.)
been thinking about a grass rake also. just trying to think of how to make the lines make a smooth transition. with compound angle the i have leading up to the bow.
it would be a lot simpler if i had an aluminum welder, but that will happen in time. but for the moment bolts and rivets will have to do the job.
i am liking this part of the build. for i can see an direction and how i am wanting to have it look. it has been good to think about the fit and finish over this last winter. i know that this is an narrow hull. and you can only do so much with it. but when they were building these hulls back in the 80's. i think they were experimenting just to see what might work, when I got this hull from my brother, he had another mini hull also that was even smaller. if my memory serves me right.
but with all this learning, i am starting to dream about building the second mini air boat. ;stir;

it would be a lot simpler if i had an aluminum welder, but that will happen in time. but for the moment bolts and rivets will have to do the job.

Man I hear you on that !!!!!

last year i purchased a few packs of the Hobart aluminum 4043 stick rod for a DC welder. i had watch a few things on the utube about some peaple welding with it. i had tried it on a few things and it just didn't want to melt into the base metal, and left a lot of gubbers.
i thought i would give it another try. this time i preheated the joint with a propane turbo torch. to between 200 and 300 degrees. but we had a good cold 45 degree wind blowing, so it was weld a little and and if i went to far, well you will see. but i was impressed on the inside joint, almost half the total weld looked clean and good, and the other parts, when the aluminum got too cold. doesn't look so good with the weld puddle not wanting to flow smooth and stick to both sides . (the pictures are of the poorer looking weld joints) but overall i am impressed with the penetration, i think i will pick up some more and practice, the other biggest headache is getting the flux off the weld. a wire wheel on a grinder works the best. just make sure you use a SS wire wheel, or you will contaminate the aluminum you are trying to weld.
the outside joint i ground the weld smooth and it looks like it should do the job. , and now one more item i can almost check off. i need to try this on a day when there is no wind and find a way to keep the heat contained a little longer on the base aluminum. and maybe i could make the whole joint look good.
this is an option i have been looking at. to see if it is doable.

Not bad for what you're working with there Bart...The panels themselves look like they'll look right at home on the hull...

i don't think i would ever use the aluminum stick rod for anything structural, i need to study up on it and see how it is compatible with the 5053 aluminum, the panels, i don't know what grade they are. but the price was right.
i have to chuckle a little about the water that came in the hull. as i was cleaning things up. there was 2, 1/4" holes on each side below the middle rib new the aft. so maybe most of the water that came in the boat was my own fault.

it has been a fun spring, wait it is summer. even with it getting light at 3 in the morning and getting dark after midnight, there just isn't enough time in the day. the job hours jumped up to 13 to 14 hours a day, it just doesn't leave enough time to do the important stuff, and it seems like it is taking forever to finish some of the touches on this boat.
this last week we had 2 days that got hot.. any way Valdez hot. and the vent on the fuel tank isn't working to well. on a brighter note. not all the paint has bubbled up. i remember some others talking about fuel cap on a certain boat tank not working to well. it just isnt a fun when you get off work and find a gallon of gas in the back corner of the hull. at least it skipped a day in between. i installed the rudder stop, just showed a picture of what could have happened if the linkage would have double back on itself. ( for the first trial run, i am so happy that didn't happen. )
i went simple on a rudder lock, just drilled a hole in the back plate of the boat and a bolt should do just fine.
then i decided to relocate the battery box. ( using the same battery for a 4-wheeler and other toys, and playing with the fuel tank, it got old having to unbolt it all the time.)
also have the bilge pump installed just waiting on a hard elbow to plumb in.
put a little anti skid on the deck plate, that made it a little nicer so the feet don't want to slide around. when driving the boat

the check list of things still to do
still looking at how i want to secure the control box. and incorporate a grab handle on the right side.
purchase and install lights.
put a hard cover/lid on the front 2 feet of the boat,
lighting and side rails for the trailer
some days it seems like the list could go forever, but it is fun just trying to find a couple hours in the evening to tie up all the loose ends.
then i look at all the other things that are piling up and need attention. but that is what keeps a person young. i cant wait to get most of these things out of the way and get my other motor ready to start up, and see if my additions to it will work or not. and all that comes between rebuilding 4 wheelers, lawnmowers, plumbing and then the everyday house entertainment.
i can't believe it is almost the longest day of the year again. time does go fast.
hope every one is staying safe, and having fun this summer.

Well I came home from work today, and I found that I may have lost my air boat,
my better half was out doing yard work. It was a hot day, and the bugs were out. Not a fun Combination
She looked over at that perfectly good fan, now she has a cool breeze, and no bugs.
It is a good thing I have a spare motor, now I have a good excuse to get it running
Life is fun

It's amazing how much air the prop moves even at an idle...I can blast pretty far when I rev it up...Just tell her to watch out for the bugs IN FRONT of the blades coming through !!!:lol:

well after working on 4-wheelers, trucks, snowmachines, i finally got the lights on the trailer and went out and played tonight.
i was thinking of going out to the gravel pit pond. but i am glad i listened to my son and we went to Robe Lake instead,
this time, we had a few more things, besides just a tool bag, like a life vest, & ear muffs.
i had moved the motor & seat frame forward about 1 inch from where i had it the first time out playing. as soon as i would get on step, and start to get some speed, the porpoise action would begin. so do i slide the frame back to where it was before? or which way would i want to trim the motor? but other than that it was fun. put the kid out on it for a while, and he couldn't stop smiling, he has been real good at "drifting" his truck on the dirt roads. but he is starting to get the hang of drifting the airboat, it caught him by surprise when he caught a wake coming back at him. he even put the nose under the water a couple of times. I am glad i put a cover on the bow of the airboat. or he might have filled it up.
attached are a few clips that i uploaded to Utube.
putting the side boards really helped out a lot. I did't have to turn the bilge pump on.
having a 4 foot wide boat, is not very stable, and the corners do dip as you can see. i need to slow down the video and see just how high the water is coming up on the side.
but with practice and getting the motor trimmed correctly, this could be a fun little boat. not much good for hauling much of a payload,
an other small item of interest. my son mentioned it also. for what ever reason. the boat will turn left real easy, but it takes a little' to make it turn to the right. i don't know if that is because of the linkage stop that i put on it.
it does take some getting used to it seems as i push or pull on the stick, it is not turning, but then before i know it. i am going sideways. what a rush.
i even had time to look at the couple of gauges this time, i think i blew the tach. it is stuck at 6000 RPM'S, and i think that i might running rich. my EGT gauges are not registering much of anything. i think i will be springing for a Holtzman tempa-flow http://www.holtzmaneng.com/carburetion-products


but then i haven't really been able to open it up for too long of a time, with the porpoise action.
but it is fun, tomorrow i should be able to get my youngest son & daughter out and playing on it. we will see what he thinks about it all.
https://youtu.be/vS5R9riifiQ
https://youtu.be/wfeckijHF4A
https://youtu.be/AlCdMtzai2U
https://youtu.be/8ht_cp6Q1Uc
https://youtu.be/UFuZQ8PMA60

what a fun day, found out in thinking about adjusting the trim on the motor, I didn't think about that enough. have to undo all 4 motor mounts, lift up the motor off of the base, then i can add or subtract shims. not a good plan, but i hope i don't need to do that to many times.
so today's agenda was to do a little more tuning. on top of that i felt the need to fill in some of the gaps on the cage, had some plastic coated chicken wire, so i zip tied it on, temporary of coarse. the kids wanted to see if the boat would pull a tube. didn't know if it would or not so we took a tube also. up to this point the day was going great.
pulled up to the lake, the kid jumped out to back me up. then it started on the slippery downhill slope.
a bottom bolt fell out on one of the rudders. beat up a corner pretty good. no problem. we could still play with one rudder.
so while i was undoing the rear straps, the boat started sliding off the trailer. one of the kids undid the front latch. just glad the trailer wasn't on the slope going down to the lake. we were able to stop it from sliding off the trailer. think we would have stopped on that note. but hey, why stop now.
so we got the boat in the water. I had decided to wait and start it up after i got away from the trailer. well i forgot to pull the rudder pin. and with the chicken wire in the way, i couldn't reach it. we are on a roll.
figure next time i better be wearing chest waders.
so we took a few turns on it. kind of fun with only one rudder that is offset. it would turn great to the left. turning right, that was kind of fun. ( thinking that maybe i might make a mount for just one rudder in the center of the cage. and have a spare linkage just for situations like this. )
well the younger son maybe was a little smarter than his older brother and Dad, he didn't want to drive it today. I don't know why?
but we did talk him into riding on the tube. ( i didn't tell either of them the rope needed to be another 50 feet longer at least, just to stay out of the prop wash. but they need to learn sometime.
personally i thought it might have pulled it a little better. maybe the chicken wire was restricting to much air flow. the motor was working a lot harder today, just to do anything.
but i found out that that tube has some drag on it. probably lucky i didn't sink the boat. i would turn a corner get enough slack in the line to get on step. but when i hit the end of the rope. i guess at least i can say we tested the frame mounts, or we would have been air borne. the boat would come to almost a complete stop. i wish that i had done this (when i got out a ways i stopped and let my son know that this was just to hard on the motor and he might have to paddle back) i can imagine the look i would have got both from him and my wife. but it still was a fun thought.
so we got back and decided to call it a day, only the trailer was listed at a sideways angle. but it all ends well. sometimes i let things go like that so my sons can learn what not to do. or do. to make life simple.
i know next time my son backs a trailer in the water he will choose a level area.
as far as adjustments i had tilted the rear of the motor up. about 1/8th of an inch and moved it back 3/4" of an inch. it was almost like riding a rocking horse. once it would get up on step, it couldn't make up its mind. i am getting the sliding or as the kid says drifting through the corners. pretty good.
so i took out the shims. slide the frame just a little further forward than what i had it yesterday.
turned a new pin out on the lathe. fixed the rudder. with a little metal bondo. who knows it might be hard to spot the damage. (lucked out on that one.)
but if i do go to a one rudder set up that would loose almost 12 lbs off the back of the boat. (so there are pros and cons to that.)

any way i had to post a couple of shots on utube of pulling the tube out and back.

https://youtu.be/VTvs3DBmCTE
https://youtu.be/qYVo3RFSpfA

the adventures continue, its my last full day off for a while, we had to go out and play some more, the weather was even almost sunny. it was a day of first drives for my wife Tina, 3rd oldest daughter Jessica, and youngest son Hayden. and of coarse Zach the showoff. the boat was running great, downloaded an app on the phone, using GPS to get the MPH. i had it up to 30 miles an hour. still dealing with the porpoise. but we are getting a little used to it. i think trim tabs are in the near future. there is a lot of grass growing in the lake, but for the most part it is 15 to 20 feet deep, so i havn't found a place to play in skinny water, as fun as this is playing in 10 to 20 feet of water, if we had some skinny water, that would really be a hoot.
and of course we had some unwelcome events, when Tina was out driving it. we heard a loud pop. like a rudder strike. but by the time she came back, it was on the back burner, then Zach got in, and took off. and we heard just a little louder prop strike, when he came back to the bank we looked at the prop. and sure enough one of the props had 2 good dings in it. I know we claim that that the mosquitoes in Alaska are big, (and a friend of mine on his small plane, has had bugs take out small pieces of his prop.) looked all over and couldn't see anything that was missing or came loose. so we decided to call it a day, the kid pushed me off the bank, hit the start button, and things just didn't sound right. i am glad i had a pull start.
this is becoming a family affair, the video of Jessica, she really doesnt like boat, but it put a smile on her face, and same with Tina, but seeing the smiles on their faces when they came back, made the last 2 years, worth it. life is just great.
Jessica's first attempt at driving
https://youtu.be/AxEjzqNAdYc
Haydens first attempt at driving
https://youtu.be/UGbpN-2ahJw

zach showing off as usual, at least there are no trees close by.
https://youtu.be/nW1tVmLyZzI

It looks like a blast !! Glad everyone had fun....Zach sure was spinning it around, the water looked like it was right there waiting to come over the top !!:lol: It appears to have plenty of power and I'm sure that hull is holding it back from it's true potential...Did you figure out what struck the prop ???

i had 2, 6mm socket head cap screws holding the starter motor to the motor. there was 1 laying in the hull, and it wasn't damaged. the 2 strikes i heard were about 20 minutes apart in running time. until i found the 1 cap screw i was thinking that it was the 2 screws. but i have looked the frame and motor over, and i still can't find another missing bolt or nut. (at times i wonder if it might have been a big dragon fly, but i am glad that what ever it was. that it didn't ricochet back at my wife or son.
it goes to show that loctite would be good on a few things. this is a lot simpler motor than the 084, not near as many things to double check. ordered 2 blades today, along with a new tach. i was hearing stories today about what others have used to repair nicks and dings in the props. but with as deep as these are, 75 bucks for a new blade is worth it. but man it was a nice and sunny day today, and the kids were wanting to go and play again. it is bad when on a calendar, you mark the days sunny or rainy, and since May i have only 10 sunny days marked, and this was one of them.

as far as water coming over the top. the videos show it rather well. i know if he had let off the power, it probably would be sitting on the bottom, and he is doing it on purpose. i have done a few of these sharp turns myself. in trying to learn how far i need to turn the rudder and run the throttle. with this narrow hull. it is a gamble. i know with out the side boards, it would have already gone down. it is kind of interesting to slow the camera down and really see how far up the water goes on the sides in slow motion, the other item of interest, is that when Zach or I have been out playing, we haven't needed to pump any water out when we came in and changed out drivers. but when my daughter and wife took it out, by going slower or not being on step when turning, there was enough water sitting in the hull, that it needed to be pumped out.
talking with Tina, about this, for she would really like to have an airboat large enough so 2 people would feel comfortable ( i would hate to see the cost of shipping a Marty Bray hull to Alaska) but thought process is now to widen this hull, build a new one, or maybe come across a (Mini)larger hull that someone has outgrown. ( it is getting closer to fall, and usually there is a spike in airboat stuff on the craigslist pages).
but it is kind of like driving a little sports coupe, it is very responsive, and as my son says it can turn on a dime. anyway don't mean to ramble on. but after sitting on this for more years than i would like to think about. i am just having to much fun. the funnest thing about this, is that so many people are scared of the idea that you can actually build a boat, but it gives most of us, a lot of satisfaction, to say that i put this together, and yes, i have had some good learning curves, and more are on the way. and i enjoy seeing what others on this forum had done and are doing to follow their dreams of building their own airboat.
be safe out there and have fun

You know, I stared at that pic for a while and couldn't see the starter wasn't fastened until you pointed it out...I'm not sure how I missed that...

I'm with you I'd want a new blade with that type of material it's not worth the risk with those two deep hits...I'm sure the tip is stressed more than it appears also...

I'm glad you found some fun for the whole family with your build...;thumb;

don't worry, i was counting the springs on the exhaust, and looking at all the head nuts, and every bolt on the gear box and adapter plate. i think i even had my hand on the starter a couple of times, and missed it also. it wasn't until i hit the starter button. that i realized the culprit. i wish i could blame it on some big mosquitoes, and not taking time to double check the nuts and bolts on every piece. i still find it a little strange that it hit the same blade twice. my luck usually doesn't go that way.

so i got the new prop blades, and 2 tach's, a Tiny Tach and a Faria one. and went out and could finally see what was happening. also put new plugs in and indexed them. the motor is sounding smooth.
found out from what i was leaning towards, just past 1/2 throttle the RPM's were at 6000. a year ago i was visiting with ultra-prop. and with the set up i had, 3.06 to 1 gear ratio, and 15 degree blocks. he was thinking that i would need at least 18 degree blocks, and that, this might not even work.
but i was wanting to see what the motor would do with the set up that i purchased it in.
lucky for me, last year i came across some more gear boxes with some taller gears, 2.65 to 1 ratio.
visited with ultra-prop again, and with this taller ratio he is thinking that 15 degree blocks might be to tall, and might have to go to 14 degrees.
so maybe tonight i will get the taller gear box on and see where it all sits.
I don't know what I will do if at 1/2 throttle it will do 30, what will it do at full throttle??? this could be more entertainment than i am ready for. maybe i will be able to pull the kids on the tube. who knows.

as you can see, now i have some duct tape, before long, there may be a blue tarp on it also.

well i am so much closer to having this dialed in. i can almost do my happy dance.
it was raining all day long, and i wasn't really looking forward to trading the gear box out in it. but as i got off work it stopped.
by the time I got to trading it out, a 2 year old granddaughter thinks walking around the house and holding her had is more important.
so the 2.65 ratio with 15 degree blocks are keeping the max RPM almost 6200, i don't know if the neighbors liked me doing this at the house.
but it felt like it dropped the power curve down to around 3000, where yesterday on the lake it was around 5500 rpm for it to stay on plane.
tomorrow i should have time to run out to the lake and see what this will do.
where the specs have the max rpm at 6750, i am thinking that 14 degree blocks will be coming soon.
and that extra 400 prop rpms really make a big difference standing behind it at idle.
after running it up to full throttle twice tonight, and feeling the thrust that it is putting out. i am real curious about what the rpms will be to put it up on step and what a comfortable cruising will be. i am thinking it is going to have a wicked hole shot.
on having the 2 tachs, it was worth it to have the Tiny Tach, and know what setting is to be on, and then i was able to set the scale on the faria tach to the correct setting. that big dial is so much easier to read, i am almost glad that the tach i was attempting to use got water logged. and stopped working. just haven't had time to figure out what to put in its place. but i am thinking that a brand new panel may be showing up later this fall.
if i didnt have to be to work at 5 in the morning, i think i would head out to the lake now. it is almost like Christmas Eve. life is fun.

what a difference it made, with getting the rpm's in check, well it is close, now i am waiting on the 14 degree blocks. but it handles totally different. as you can see from the couple of videos that are below.
on a side note i need to get some new EGT sensors. the ones i picked up last spring well, they never really have worked, i guess the saying is true, you get what you pay for. with welding a boss on the pipes, i couldn't reuse some of the ones that I had already, (they were the clamp style)
anyway last night i put the ohm meter on them to compare. the old good ones are at 2.5, and the new cheap ones were reading 20.8. needless to say i got what i paid for. and some better quality are on order
then i was so excited about seeing what the speed was going to be, i turned the phone on to the app, but forgot to start it. but all i know is with just a little chop it didn't porpoise and yep it goes along at a pretty good clip.
https://youtu.be/ndyEOQvDqoI (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_ndyEOQvDqoI&d=DwMBaQ&c=aOu-pQYce1jVUyebmSRuR7rpnGDfLOHyN9082WyNQHE&r=0FrpoS-YmbRCbWj-C71dsvyjXmpj9ZVlNvAMNpmkcMU&m=RyEANQVOzvthoFyc9SgqPid7i_OmCqBqhzV0JXUmbAM&s=WjYrDSNvQpd-KKaziK4bufVL0rbdsBc3rMrbcvBgyzY&e=)

https://youtu.be/-ItapjXUYrw (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_-2DItapjXUYrw&d=DwMBaQ&c=aOu-pQYce1jVUyebmSRuR7rpnGDfLOHyN9082WyNQHE&r=0FrpoS-YmbRCbWj-C71dsvyjXmpj9ZVlNvAMNpmkcMU&m=0OE0rGpXbZO_hPlECOUcuRfX-7P2DrqRrz0_DkoBrdA&s=_Tx3FyP1m4da4IddacDmEnx6EV4LsOE4Xfnl9c2IQ0I&e=)

Bart that little boat really surprised me. never thought it would run that good. man it goes good. glad you got it whipped. and that wild man on the second video look like he is having the time of his life.

it is surprising me also. when i picked up the motor, like many i assumed that it was good to go as far as the gearing and prop. but like i found out. there were a few changes that need to be made. i can see the frustration, that many have when they put things together and the boat will not get up on step. i imagine that who ever put this together the first time, sold it because they couldn't get it dialed in. and then it was passed on to a couple of others then on to me. i am just glad that there is so much help and information on this forum. this might not be the 084 motor, but it has been a fun & learning project,
so last night, the motor was running kind of hot on the top end of the rpm range. and there again, i don't think that this motor ever was put through the paces
that we have done this last week. so tonight i will put some bigger main jets in, to richen up the top end. in one of the videos, at the end, you will see the kid looking back at the motor and around. the reason was the motor was running to lean, and more or less lost all throttle. upon checking the spark plugs they were very white. just happy that there was not any aluminum flakes. put a little 2 stroke oil in the spark plug holes and dumped 5 more ounces in the fuel tank. got the motor running again.
tonight will check the compression. and determine if any major damage was done.
but i idled it for a good while afterwards, and it still sounded good and healthy maybe i lucked out this time.
an other observation. with using a temp gun there is a 50 degree difference between the front and rear jug, at idle. with the front being the cooler one.
so there are some skeletons in the closet that i still need to figure out and find answers for.

Hey Bart, how close are the two tachs with the readouts ??? Nice work I bet you're happy with the progress !!;thumb;

well i have taken some time to wire up at least one working EGT gauge, at least between that and the tack i can get it somewhat in the ball park, waiting on some main jets to bump it up from 220 to 230 or 240.
but in the meantime i raised the needle jets up one notch. but i won't get a good reading untill i get some more gas in the tank and thin out the mix.
but on a good note the compression is still at 145 psi on each cylinder.
just ended up fixing a couple of things on the motor mounts and getting some brackets made up to try only one rudder, and see how loosing 14 lbs of the back of the boat, will change anything.
the boat feels real stable, for its size, but as they say on a hull this size almost every pound counts. if i don't widen it this winter, I am looking at installing a lithium battery http://earthxbatteries.com/
which weighs only a couple of pounds, if i did this i would loose about 15 lbs.
as far as comparing the 2 tachs i will include some pictures, that saves a lot of words, but all in all the tiny tach is running a little lower, but when i followed the directions and wrapped it around just one spark plug wire, the readings would go all over the place, but would stay consistent, as long as i put pressure on the red wire. so i called the the tec. line and after explaining what was happening, it was suggested that i try wrapping it like i have in the picture, and doing so it settled down and is giving me a consistent reading. i really don't understand why it was jumping all over the place, just glad that they had a solution. i just don't know at the moment which tach is more accurate. but it does give me a starting point.

They're not very far off from each other I'd be OK using either one alone and calling it good...Strange how they suggested wiring between the two...:confused: But if it works so be it..Glad to hear the engine has good compression now you can fine tune it and find it's true potential..;thumb;

so a little engine work update, back when i was putting new seals in the Cuyuna 460, the PTO seal that i was sent, seemed just a little on the tight side, as far as slipping over the flywheel hub. i visited with the vender about it. and expressed my concern that i thought the seal should have a center dia. of 48mm. not the 45mm that was sent.
he informed me that it needed to be that tight to keep a good seal. (but as you know, sometimes the end user just has to do things a little different) so i purchased a seal with the inside measurement of 48mm.
well to make a long story short. i should have listened. the seal that i used worked good for the first few times. but now that the motor has run a little bit, it would start leaking fresh air past it, as soon as it would warm up.
up until last night i was thinking it was a carburetor problem, until i remembered installing this seal in question. then it all made sense, why the pyro was running up to 800/1000 degrees at idle, and it didn't mater what adjustment i did to the carb, it kept reading the same.
needless to say, tonight i changed out the seal to what has been recommended, with a 45mm inside diameter. man what a difference, the temp is staying where it should be at idle. and it is running real smooth.
also sometime this week i will be getting the 14 degree blocks. i am getting excited i can't wait to see if it will be acting like its old self.
there is supposed to be a good rain storm coming up the gulf for the next week or so. so i hope there is a lull in it and i can get out and see if this solved the issue.
sometimes i am my own biggest problem. but that is how i learn from my mistakes also.
on a entertaining note, last night when we took it out to the lake to play/ test it out. there were a few groups of peaple out there, and one had a fire next to the bank, i didn't think nothing off it. i would pull up to the beach, so i could work on the carbs on somewhat solid ground.
well the last time i came in, after it failed miserably again, my wife started waving for me to pull up on the other side of the trucks. i guess when i took off, the prop wash moved their fire a couple of feet back, and that group decided that my airboat wasn't so cool after all. I guess if i had embers & small pieces of burning sticks, from my fire being blown all over, i wouldn't be to happy about it also. live and learn.

it hasn't been the best weather for getting out and playing this last week, but i have learned a few things, and am on the way back to getting the motor tuned up
so a lot of the problems i have come across, is mostly of my own making. at least to some extent.
so the last time i had the boat out and it was running somewhat okay, other than the prop not having enough pitch and at half throttle, the motor running up to 6000
rpm. it was then it started to bog down. and the rpm's started dropping.
upon looking over the motor, one of the choke adjustment cables had loosened up a little. so i just tightened it back down. and didn't think any more about it. until 2 nights ago when i pulled off both the carbs to verify that all the passageways were clean, and see what the sizes were of all the different jetting in the carbs. and i noticed that there was no tension on the choke when i unscrewed it., needless to say, most of the problems that i have been having, has been due to one carb being slightly choked out.
the problem that i have been coming across lately, is it would take for ever to get the motor started, and once it started, every thing was fine to a point. it would start on the first pull, but now i realize it was flooding out the mag cylinder, just a little.
so last night i cranked it over for quite a while and it wouldn't even fire. but as soon as i put the choke fully on, it fired up on the first pull.
i have been scratching my head over this, thinking about it, needing to choke an motor when it is 60 degrees.
so here it is again, having the motor set up, as i received it.
now having the manufactures recommended base carb settings. this is what i am going to set it at tonight before i attempt to start it. change the main jets to 260, & raise the pilot jets from 25 to 35.
i have the 14 degree pitch blocks installed, so i will also find out if that will keep the rpms in check.
it has been raining pretty good every night that i get home from work. but maybe if i can see some significant improvement,
i will run out to the lake and really get wet.
for the most part i can only chuckle at myself. 15 years ago, i would have had this figured out in no time. but then i was playing with 2 stroke carbed motors all the time. now with most of the sleds having EFI, it is amazing how fast a person can forget, even the simple things,
but maybe this will awake some working knowledge that i have forgotten over time, if i attempt to do a duel carb setup on the 084 motor.
so many times it is just a very simple thing, that can make a person really scratch their heads. i know it was frustrating me, trying to figure out what had changed. when i put the 2.65 gear box on, the motor was a pain in the but to start. but it was a factor of a couple of things, a little extra silicon resting under the bearings and seals. that was throwing the drive shaft out off alignment, and the 1 carb flooding out, and the other carb running on the lean side.
maybe this will correct most of the issues. at the moment i am thinking so.
with the taller gear box, yes it is turning 400 rpms faster. around 2600 at 6500 rpms. but i really didnt want to go to set the prop angle at 18 degrees. which per Ultra-Prop, will create another set of problems down the road.

don't mean to be long winded. but maybe some of this trouble shooting headaches that i am leaning and going through might help someone else down the road.

success, at least to some what. :razz:
well installed 35 pilot jets, and 240 mains, and adjusted the air screw to 1 turn out. put the choke on, 3 pulls, and it started real easy, ( now this is the type of starting that i am used to, and I didn't even have to pull that hard) and came up to speed. the motor sounds like there is just a little more umph behind it now. but it was 10 at night. so i didn't run it up past 4000. that prop noise can get loud.
it will be a couple of weeks before i can get it out on the lake. and see what this is going to finally do.;stir; taking the kid down to Idaho and getting him off to college.
for the first time in a couple of weeks I feeling more positive about finding the true potential of this motor. ;thumb;
so i thought i would see how much it rained today, i left the plug in the boat. and there was about 4" of water waiting to be pumped out. at least i can see how fast the bilge pump works on a trial run.

the carb tuning is bringing back a lot of memories, it will run great for 10 to 15 minutes and then it slowly went to the rich side. but for a little bit , i was on step, running at almost an idle, and then it went to rich. but it is running so much better. a few more times and this is going to be dialed in. at least for this temperature. 2 strokes are just so much fun.
but it seems like it is getting simpler to drive. visiting with a friend about how hard it is to turn to the right, and he showed me the trim tabs that he has on the middle of his rudders on his boat.
for i was asking about the problem that i am seeing, at the moment if i let go of the rudder stick when on the throttle. i will go in a mad circle. and i dont think this would end well.
i could just see me go flying out into the water. but it could look good if someone was filming it.:&&:
so i put both idle jets back to 25, and the mag main to 220, then backed out the air mixture screw to 1.25 turns
just writing this down so in a couple of weeks i can remember what i did. when i get back to playing on this.


https://youtu.be/HWZcHyvZMjw
https://youtu.be/TG5oeAB0REQ

Let the fun begin

Maybe I went overboard on the width. Now it will be 65" wide at the aft. Adding 16+ inches to the width and it started raining. What fun it seems like this is where I was last year. But what a difference it makes having a aluminum welder. And now I may have a better idea of how to finish this up. Still a couple of days on the hull. Then a new cage and maybe a new stand for the motor. Just have to see how it all fits up

it was a good day, even though it rained for most of the day, if living here has taught me one thing, if you want something done, you better not wait for the rain to stop. at least with the rain. i don't have the breeze, so the shielding gas does its job.
i thought about using 1x2 channel to stiffen the center of the hull. but the local shop didn't have any in, but he has some 1x2 tube, which actually worked out great,
I am glad that last winter I built that roller. it came in very handy, to form the tubing to the plate. I first tried it with a stick of conduit, to get an idea of where the different slopes were on the bow. It didn't take to much time, there was roughly only 22 inches of tubing that i had to worry about. we only needed to remove it 5 times to get the correct profile.
my friend that borrowed it last spring, forgot to bring back the crank wheel. but a cordless drill worked wonders,
with keeping it at the same profile as the original channels, i had to deal with 3 different radius in the 22 inches, what fun.
but without this roller i would had to resort to cutting the back side, of the tubing, and pray that i would be able to match the cuts to the profile. i could see where it could take some time.
in looking at the time stamp on my pictures, from the first one bending the conduit to having the tube all welded to the hull. was only 40 minutes, so it defiantly is a time saver. ;thumb;
another big plus with this style of bender, if i have to make multiple pieces with the same profile. i can line up the original one on the outside of the pillow blocks. ( am getting exited about making more gunnels for my next hull)
my next project for the bender will to make the new hoops for the cage,
so much for getting excited, i just heard a big crash outside, the wind picked up the portable awning, and it landed about 30 feet away, 1 leg is still straight. just how am I going to explain this to the wife???:)

next on the agenda, is to finish up the aft, building it up just a little higher, never did like how shallow it was. i will be raising it up about 3 more inches, so after making a slope for the prop. the narrowest part should be about 15 to 16 inches, I will get that figured out tomorrow.
and this is when i have to start looking at will it be simpler to build a new engine stand or attempt to at add 4 to 6 inches to the existing one. this answer I will find out tomorrow when put the old stand back in and see how everything starts to line up.

Nice job I believe that's one decision you will never regret.

nice job bart. i was going to do that to casey's boat but after he rebuilt the stand it ran so good i decided not to. after he gets good at tig welding with the new welder he might do it himself. to many projects and more piling up. just what i need to keep me going. by all means have fun what your doing.

Great job Bart.. How does the new floor thickness compare to the old stuff ??? Once you have the hull finished I'd check to make sure the bottom doesn't "oil can" when you walk on it...You may need to add some cross bracing in a few areas to keep the bottom profile intact...It will be interesting to see just how much it raises the hull out of the water with the increased area...This sure is just what you've needed to make this rig more enjoyable and much more stable...You've got plenty of HP I bet the performance will jump dramatically...

corky,
are you refering to something along the lines of what you did on your build? like the picture below. with the side & floor bracing about 4 feet from the bow. along with the front cover plate bracing.
good catch.
i have been thinking of what to put across it all the way in 2 places. to keep the flex to a minim. that's the fun of splitting the hull. a person really wouldn't want to be out on the water and have it fold up on them.




http://miniairboatassoc.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1890&stc=1&d=1428172682

You may not need the uprights maybe just some cross bracing between the center 3 where the new floor spans...I guess it all depends on how you tie in the bow and transom bracing across the top...

it has been a fun couple of weeks, got a little side tracked, with a kitchen remodel. but last night was able to go a little forward again. braced up the stern, and attached the lip it it. next will be finishing up the bow. which should stiffen it up quite a bit. on the bright side, the hull is holding water, had a couple of hot days, it got up to almost 55 degrees. and over half the rain water in the hull evaporated. kind of a backwards way to see if there are any leaks, but it works.

Nice job...It looks better already back there...:wink: